Bass w/ Vine Inlay & Pre-amp - Needs Restoration Help

[niteskunq]

Howdy all,
First time poster so please allow me to introduce me-self.
I'm primarily a guitar-picker but keep a couple of basses handy for those 'heavy' days
And I'm mildly obsessed with what are generally known as lawsuit era MIJ guitars, although I'm pretty newb to the sport.
Sort of a jack of all trades, master of none.

Anyway - the short of the long
I picked up a bass recently off the 'Bay, and it's identical to an El Degas bass, only that it was labeled by 'Matao' instead.
It's not unusual to see cross branding of this sort, alot of guitars from the era are copies of copies of copies, and Matao was a label that seems to have existed in name only - surviving off of the already manufactured guitars from established makers.

So - this bass is amazing! but..
A prior owner decided to lobotomize the pre-amp, the selective tone channel, the input/battery hookup.. basically neutered it from stem to stern and with no apparent goal of improving anything.

Could/would anyone be so kind as to post some pictures or PM me with some pix of the guts and wiring for this model? I'll be ever in your debt/buy ya a beer/and pass the karma along. At the very least I shall sing your praises everytime I 'slappa-dabassa' ;D (quote from "I love you man" - i am being cheesy)

[charles]

I don't think I'll be much help - that pre-amp is something totally new and likely changes the wiring scheme completely. You might want to check for wiring diagrams on Google - a quick search gave this site with some links http://mediawebsource.com/bass/basspickupwiring.htm

Best of luck!

[niteskunq]

Hi Charles - thanks for the reply!

I thought I saw the exact same model bass in your 'stable' pix, from a while back.

http://www.eldegas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17

If you still have it - I'd love to see the insides of the control cavity in detail.
I can't find a schematic anywhere, and I doubt a digital copy exists.

My bass appears to have all the original wires, but they were cut off at their respective connections.
I can re-assemble the tone selector because the color coded wires are still there at each end, but the preamp wires are a puzzle.

[Barry]

Hello niteskunq, good to have you here!
Charles will have to speak to the similarity of his bass to yours, but except for the fretboard design, it does look like the same bass body, at least from that one small picture.

However...what is hitting my eye is those solid brass cylinder knobs. These are a very well known feature of Westone guitars which were made by Matsumoku. I have a Thunder 1-A with those same knobs and many bass models of that era did too. I belong to 2 Forums dedicated to the instruments of Matsumoku and I did a quick search of both of them for your Matao.

Nothing showed up at Westone: http://westone.netboarder.com/forum.htm
but the Guitar Gallery did have an interesting discussion about Matao, Columbus and Ibanez (all 'white labels'): http://www.matsumoku.org/ggboard/viewto ... ilit=matao. Looks like the originator may have been the Fuiji Gen Gakki plant.

A very knowledgeable collector and member of all of these forums, including this one, is Frenchy. He's also primarily a bass player so I'm sure he'll have something to offer when he catches up to this thread. If he doesn't see it, you may want to try PM'ing him directly. I'm sure he'll have something helpful to offer.

[charles]

I can't make heads or tails of this, so I hope you can.

As I mentioned, no pre-amp/battery hookup exists in my bass, so this wiring scheme might be completely different than you need.

[charles]

However...what is hitting my eye is those solid brass cylinder knobs. These are a very well known feature of Westone guitars which were made by Matsumoku. I have a Thunder 1-A with those same knobs and many bass models of that era did too. I belong to 2 Forums dedicated to the instruments of Matsumoku and I did a quick search of both of them for your Matao.

My bass has those brass cylinder knobs.

The pickups appear to be the same, but my electronics setup is very different. There are phase switched and a coil tap... I think. These may or may not be original. It certainly does give a ton of tonal options.

[niteskunq]

Hello niteskunq, good to have you here!
Charles will have to speak to the similarity of his bass to yours, but except for the fretboard design, it does look like the same bass body, at least from that one small picture.

A very knowledgeable collector and member of all of these forums, including this one, is Frenchy. He's also primarily a bass player so I'm sure he'll have something to offer when he catches up to this thread. If he doesn't see it, you may want to try PM'ing him directly. I'm sure he'll have something helpful to offer.

Barry, Charles - THANKYOU so much!
It's a start - and that's more clue than I have right now, heh!

Barry - indeed the pix show that it is a different schematic, but it helps.
Charles - there's an El Degas bass like yours on the bay this week, minus the phase and tap switches.
[ebay]140365768308[/ebay]

[charles]

Charles - there's an El Degas bass like yours on the bay this week, minus the phase and tap switches.
[ebay]140365768308[/ebay]

Yeah, I've been watching that one. Just don't have the scratch right now (at least according to the wife ) or a reason to replace my set-neck version.

[niteskunq]

i wasn't quite sure where to post this, so..
since the Westone connection came up in this thread I'll put it here;

there's a NICE lookin Westone 1-A 'p-bass' on the bay
ebay item# 130352214728
bass

seems a few of these models are up there right now, but this one in particular has some of the nicest figured wood I've seen.
Price seems decent imo, but I don't have a real handle on what's realistic for these models.

*also*
What's the best way to insert a link? I've tried the [url] bracket style, and no url/bbcode is disabled in my profile options.
When i use brackets it still comes out as just text. (I'm only mildly url literate, so it's clearly a user error )

update - thanks Charles!

[charles]

Just put the link in as-is, the forum software converts to a link automatically.

edit: test! www.eldegas.com

edit 2: woo hoo! it works the way I thought

[Frenchy]

I have a friend that has a Matao guitar and saw several over the years... From what I can gather, they were available in the States under Matao and El Degas in Canada. The Matao are Identical to the original design El Degas like your bass and the same model in the guitar. They came with bolt on neck with no electronics, bolts on necks with phase reverse and dual coil,bolt on necks with full electronics, and again all 3 versions with thru necks... This applies for both the bass and guitar...

I have missed so many El Degas here that just thinking about it makes me cry.... I have lots of collectors here buying them up...

P.

[charles]

The El Degas / Mateo connection is only sort-of there in my opinion - at least not directly as a brand-to-brand connection, as they are just the importer's white labels (I can hear Barry muttering "here Charles goes again" from here ).

But yes, the connection is probably in reality more direct, but behind the scenes and from square one. They were likely manufactured by the same factory with their own specs and such, probably sometimes even passing each other on the factory floor before being sent to their respective importers over here in North America. I bet there were probably a handful of importers (or more) bringing in instruments from that same manufacturer to North America. Same thing happens today with a core of very large and respected manufacturers (and some not so large or respected ) supplying the instruments for lots of "white labels" over here.

Not sure if I had a point when I started typing this, but I may have lost it now. Have a headache, need an Advil and a nap.

[Barry]

...(I can hear Barry muttering "here Charles goes again" from here).

Not sure if I had a point when I started typing this, but I may have lost it now. Have a headache, need an Advil and a nap.

Welcome to my world.

[niteskunq]

The El Degas / Mateo connection is only sort-of there in my opinion - at least not directly as a brand-to-brand connection, as they are just the importer's white labels (I can hear Barry muttering "here Charles goes again" from here ).

But yes, the connection is probably in reality more direct, but behind the scenes and from square one. They were likely manufactured by the same factory with their own specs and such, probably sometimes even passing each other on the factory floor before being sent to their respective importers over here in North America. I bet there were probably a handful of importers (or more) bringing in instruments from that same manufacturer to North America. Same thing happens today with a core of very large and respected manufacturers (and some not so large or respected ) supplying the instruments for lots of "white labels" over here.

Not sure if I had a point when I started typing this, but I may have lost it now. Have a headache, need an Advil and a nap.

first off - howdy, Happy Holidaze, and hope everyone is enjoying or at least surviving their respective vacations and family gatherings

I've been trying to figure out Matao, and as far as it goes - it was only a name applied to a variety of other makers goods, never a manufacturer per say.
The brand itself was retailed exclusively by a small chain/franchise of music shops in the Pacific Northwest between Oregon and Washington in the late 70s- early 80s. The name itself pops up on all kinds of models, but generally Matsumoko made guitars. I've got a thread going over at the ICW (ibanez collectors world) under 'other replicas' re: Matao, which is slowly turning into a 'Cimar' based thread. Cimar was a subsidiary brand to Ibanez, and many 'Cimar' models were rebranded by various importers such as Matao, Crestline, Mako, Vogue, etc. They're not parallel or similar models, they are one and the same save for the name on the headstock. Sometimes there were options or layouts that varied, but the overall builds, wood and hardware indicate they were piggy backing on someone else's designs - not their own. It's notable that in many of the older Cimar catalogs the guitars pictured don't appear to have any logos, Cimar or otherwise.

anyrate - I've got a new 'Matao' aquisition of which I'll have to post pics soon.
It's a hoot!

[charles]

only a name applied to a variety of other makers goods, never a manufacturer per say.

That's the deal with pretty much all of these kinds of brands from that era. "White label" brands applied to guitars manufactured by Asian (Japanese, later Korean) manufacturing companies for import into North America. The iron was hot - Gibson and Fender were having the worst years in terms of quality that they ever experienced - and a lot of companies were there to strike it.