mid 70's El Degas MT19R

[the52blues]

I used to sell guitars in flea markets in the 70's to early 80's and had a special deal with B&J in Toronto, Canada to buy all their factory seconds. In the pile one day was this MT19R. I believe the retail price then was $999. I checked it from end to end and found no reason for it to be in their reject pile. As a matter of fact it did not have their little stamp they used to put on the inner label to mean reject. I asked but they said do you want it or not so I took it. I believe my special deal got me this guitar, hard shell case included, for $125. They haven't made this or 3 or 4 models under it since the 80's I believe. These guitars were, at that time, manufactured in Japan. Mine has a sticker on the back of the headstock that says "Made in Japan". I believe they shifted the manufacture to Taiwan or Korea in the early 80's.

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[charles]

Very interesting - nice to hear from someone who had a connection to B&J back then.

Can you elaborate on something for me? You mention a little stamp that would be placed on the sound hole label for a reject or second - can you tell me a bit more about that (what the stamp looks like, if it's normally stamped on one particular region of the stamp, etc). Also, did there tend to be a large amount of seconds/rejects coming in, or just a few here and there?

Also, can you possibly post a photo of the headstock of your ED? It's sure got an interesting use of the logo!

Thanks for posting

PS. You are right about the shift to Korean manufacture in the 80's.

[the52blues]

They used to use an "S" in a circle if I remember correctly and just stamped it anywhere on the inner label (except over the model #) As far as the number of seconds: The quality of seconds degenerated over the time I had the deal with them. At first almost any imperfection sent the piece to the seconds room. I got many a guitar that played perfectly and just had a flaw in the lacquer or a scratch somewhere but as time moved on the flaws got a lot worse and what passed for a first were simply repaired like I did to sell the seconds. My deal was I had to take all of the guitars in the seconds room to keep the deal and at the beginning it was a great deal. Later it was not so good. All I was getting were really bad guitars, broken bridges, holes kicked thru them, broken necks etc. Generally there were between 10 and 25 guitars a month. I remember I had a pickup truck and didn't have a cap for it. One month there was a large quantity of guitars in cardboard boxes that we piled in the back of the truck. My partner would open the sliding rear window and put his hand on top to hold them down but on the way back to our shop a gust of wind picked up a 12 string and thru it beneath the semi that was behind us...crunch!
As far as a pic of the logo goes. I'll try to take another one. I may have a pic where it can be seen more clearly. It is all abalone inlay...beautiful

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[Barry]

Another beauty! You're a lucky guy. Are you still gigging with it?

[the52blues]

Oh yes! I still use it to gig. I do have several other guitars that I use in rotation but the El DEgas plays the best and sounds the best especially acoustically. I had an Epiphonic V active pickup system installed years ago but this guitar really shines all by itself.

[the52blues]

I was looking thru the Martin site to see if I could tell what actual model my MT19R is copying. I believe it is the D45 Martin. The headstock design is the same, the fret inlays are the same. The inlay bindings look identical even the woods that are used. I wasn't sure at first because mine is made of Jacaranda and the Martin is South Indian Rosewood - so now I know that Jacaranda IS South Indian Rosewood. That's what the "R" is for after the MT19 - Rosewood. The only difference I see is that mine has a 3 piece back and the D45 has a 2 piece back. Is a 2 or 3 piece back better?

[charles]

Is a 2 or 3 piece back better?

I wouldn't say better or worse, just different.

[Barry]

Hi Freddie.
Good match up on the model. As fer the back...dunno.
You know, I don't think I've ever really seriously considered the back design on an acoustic before (duh!). I know the soundboard is critical. It's the thing that actually vibrates so it's gotta be good.

From what little I know, I think, from a physics point of view it doesn't matter about the back and sides as long as the surfaces are true and smooth. Their purpose is to support the soundboard and reflect the sound waves backup to it, so it shouldn't matter.

That said, I think nothing looks better than some of those 2 and 3 piece designs. Some of the El Degas models we've seen here have amazing mosaic inlays and spectacular features like flying vees and multiple woods. They can be absolutely stunning.

BTW, I thought Jacaronda was Brazilian rosewood, no? Or is that the Indian variety is no longer available?

[the52blues]

Hmmm You may be right...Jacaranda could be Brazilian...well it's a type of rosewood anyway. So....is Brazilian or South Indian a better wood for resonance? The questions could be endless. All I know is my Degas sounds as good or better compared to other Martins. The D45 lists at $9999 and I see you can buy them new for around $7400 and I paid $125 for my Degas. I think I got the best deal. BTW anyone check out the new D100? Ornate as hell and lists at $100,000! Some people have more money than brains.

[the52blues]

All this for only $87999 including case!

[charles]

That's like an Abalone nightmare.

[the52blues]

Where in the world would you feel comfortable playing your $88,000.00 guitar? How about around the campfire? If you're playing any venue, would you take it with you to the bathroom? First off I wouldn't want something that gawdy! Ewwwww...

[Barry]

"Nightmare" is the operative word! Ain't nuthin' artistic about that!
What is going on in Martin's fool head??

[charles]

"Nightmare" is the operative word! Ain't nuthin' artistic about that!
What is going on in Martin's fool head??

I think I remember seeing that one as being some sort of 100 yr anniversary model or some such - so over the top was what they were going for.

Still nicer than the Gibson wide mouth bass Les Paul that was on for $12,999
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/prod ... sku=517364

[Barry]

"We're sorry, this product has been discontinued."
Phew! Thank you!
Hey Freddie, there's one you can strum in yer canoe on your next fishing trip!