the cadilac

[charles]

Over the last few years I've seen a few come up for sale, but there were different lines of quality... I've seen bolt-on, set neck, and neck-through versions of the bass and bolt-on and neck-through versions of the guitar, sometimes with differing pickup configurations.

[Flashman]

I did know a guitar player up north who had the 6 string version with the neck through body. He picked it up at a yard sale and it was in mint condition. I forget what he paid for it I think it was around $300.00, But this guitar was barely even touched it still had the price tag on the back of the headstock. according to the price tag that was on it retailed for $980.00. From some music store in Soult Ste Marie. That sounds a little pricey for a copy? Or did they go for that kinda money back then? I realize that there was a lot of craftsmanship involved in building these guitars. You can tell as soon as you look it over and feel it in your hands and see the inlay work that was done on them. But back in the late 70s that was an awful lot of money to pay for a guitar was it not? I question as to weather or not that price sticker on that guitar was genuine?

I bought my bass at a pawn shop in Toronto back in the mid 80s for $150.

I think I did good
would you agree?

[charles]

$150 is a good price for the bass - not sure what that equated to in "today's dollars" back then due to inflation, but I think you did pretty darn well.

I don't think $980 was the "street price" for the 6-string, neck through or not!

[Barry]

...There has been talk about this style being a pretty telltale Matsumoku (Japanese manufacturer) look...

She's not like any Matsumoku I've ever seen, but I'm willing to bet she's definitely Japanese and from the same era. Perhaps Cort or Yamaki???

[charles]

Or it could even be Hoshino.

[Flashman]

Well I no halbla all this japanise lingo you guys are speaking.
All I know is this is one tough peice of lumber. And I have my first live gig in 8 years 2 play 2morrow night with this new band I've jammin with.
And when I plug that beast in,
she'll sound just as good as the day I bought her.
I was wondering if any body knows where I can buy a case for this guitar?

[charles]

You might want to take some measurements and then head to rondomusic.com - I don't know for sure but perhaps one of these will work - http://www.rondomusic.com/product1207.html or http://www.rondomusic.com/product2400.html

Congrats on the gig, hope it goes well.

[elDave]

I'm wondering if it could have been made by Kawai ? They made some Alembic style basses up until 2000

http://www.kawaius-tsd.com/pages/fIIbz.html

I'm pretty sure Kawai made instruments for other brands back in the 70's as well as their own label.

Dave

[charles]

Hmm, could be. Hard to say.
Nice find.

Whoever made 'em, I like them (particularly the set-neck & neck through versions).

[Flashman]

well whoever made the necks knew what they were doing cuz when grab the neck it feels like an expensive guitar.
Anyone whos played for some time can tell the difference in just the way the neck feels in there hand

[Barry]

well whoever made the necks knew what they were doing...

Exactly.
I don't know what was going on in Japan in the 70's and 80's but several makers virtually reinvented the guitar/bass neck design. I'm most familiar with Matsumoku since I have 10 guitars by them, acoustic included, and I can state that they're just superb playing instruments with the most comfortable neck since my old Gibson ES330; maybe better.

The quality, craftsmanship and innovation they brought during that era is likely never to be duplicated. The "good" El Degas models we see reflected in these forums reflect those qualities. They did indeed, get it right!

[jgsbass]

In the late '70s/early 80's I was told by one of the workers at "We Buy Guitars" ( a very prominent fixture on 48th st) that Japanese were buying the most prime examples of Fenders and Gibsons, taking them back to Japan and cutting them up to see what made them tick. I think that the lawsuit era instruments were heavily copied from their originals. Thats why the necks feel so good: they were modeled after the best that the originals had to offer.

[Barry]

In the late '70s/early 80's I was told by one of the workers at "We Buy Guitars" ( a very prominent fixture on 48th st) that Japanese were buying the most prime examples of Fenders and Gibsons, taking them back to Japan and cutting them up to see what made them tick. I think that the lawsuit era instruments were heavily copied from their originals. Thats why the necks feel so good: they were modeled after the best that the originals had to offer.

To be sure the early MIJ's were copies (and don't get me started on "lawsuit era", a very badly and incorrectly used term, I've posted on that subject elsewhere in these forums) but the 'copy-cat' phase was over fairly quickly.

Leading Japanese companies like Matsumoku and Aria developed their own original designs which may have had their genesis in American designs but went in a totally different direction. Matsumoku in particular had the best necks I (and many others) have ever played, and offered a slew of other innovative (for their time) features like coil tapping and phase reversal switching, along with some truly breath-taking body designs and finishes.

It's a pity the MIJ era was so short lived, except for Aria, who are still in business and still turning out some beautiful but expensive instruments, some of which continue designs born in the 80's and even 70's.
Some References:
http://www.ariausa.com/Archive/catalogs.html
http://www.ariausa.com/guitars/pe-1500ri.htm
http://www.matsumoku.org/models/models.html
http://www.westone.info/indexguitars.html

[charles]

There are still some excellent MIJ copies being made today that some people say rival/surpass Gibsons in every respect; but also have price tags that reflect that quality. See: Bacchus, Edwards, Navigator

[Flashman]

I have spoke to guitar players that told me that they used to own an ElDegas and they felt that they were junk. However after playing mine they could not agree that all ElDegas's were created equal. So they must have made some cheaper ones as well. I met up with someone who had an acustic once and I had the opertunity to play it for a bit and it wasnt too bad. It played pretty nice as I recall
You just dont see a lot of them out there anymore.
Perhaps it is becuase Charles is slowly buying up the last remaining survivers of what this company produced.
I was wondering roughly how big is your collection?