El Degas GB-26

[amzngsam]

Hey everyone, any info on the El Degas GB-26, and which gibson it's a copy of. I can't really find any information.

[charles]

I only have 1 (low quality) photo of a GB-26 in my archive so I do not have much to go on, but the shape and pickguard suggest it's likely a copy of a Gibson Hummingbird Studio (which is a dreadnought shape with the "spiky" pickguard of a Hummingbird, but without the pickguard graphics).

[BigBadBear]

I have a GB26 and it is pretty unusual.
I picked this guitar for 50$ (CDN) as a project. It was probably found in a dumpster by the seller.
I was able to bring it back to decent look and good playing condition, but the frets need to be replaced. I plan to do that soon.
This is one of the best laminated top I have ever played. The sound of this guitar is incredibly good for a laminated top.

Here is what I know about it.
The GB26 is actually a sibling (meaning: same production line) of the Ibanez Concord 755, produced at the end of 1974. The 755 production was very short and ended that same year. This makes the 1974 Ibanez Concord 755 a rare guitar. The GB26 is even more rare.

Many independent distributors used to outsource their guitars to Japan manufacturers back then, including Buegeleisen & Jacobson of New York.
So some of these vintage guitars are the same as the known brands with a different label on them.

My GB26 have number 741224 stamped on the neck block. This is not a serial number. It is more like a batch number.
Both GB26 and 755 have the lawsuit era Gibson style open book headstock shape.

The interesting feature of my GB26 is that there is an Ibanez inlay underneath the ElDegas silkscreen on the headstock.
After 45 years, the plastic inlay shrunk and caused some deflection on the headstock. So we can see it when looking at the right angle towards a light source.

I have pictures of the guitar at the following link:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?van ... 3849577022

I was not able yet to find another owner of a GB26. If anybody have one, look for this Ibanez inlay underneath the silkscreen and please let me know. I am very curious to know whether all the GB26 are reworked Ibanez 755, or if mine is the only one.

Cheers!

[BigBadBear]

There is one GB26 1975 for sale on reverb.
The headstock does not appear to have the inlay under the lacquer.

[charles]

These guitars are "white label" instruments so they would have been badged at the manufacturer. I don't know what to say about your report of there appearing to be an Ibanez inlay under the lacquer. These instruments would have been made to order so I don't get why they would have rebadged anything. Crazy!

[BigBadBear]

I know: this is crazy!

There are a few plausible explanations for the rebadging:
- one of the "white label" guitars was not up to quality standards, or maybe was broken by accident, and they needed to rework one, or some, of the Ibanez in stock in order to fulfill the B&J order quantity.
- the interest for the 755 was not up to the expectation. It appeared only in the late 1974 catalog. It was not in the 1975 Ibanez catalog. So there might have been an unsold 1974 755 inventory that was recycled into a different label by applying black lacquer over the inlay and then they applied the silkscreen label, sold it to B&J with a discount.

I have seen only one similar occurrence in an Ibanez collectors forum. It was a no name electric Gibson style with the inlay shrinking just like mine. So this is not the only case, but it is still a rare thing.

My post have 2 objective:
- if you have a GB26, you might want to see if it was a rebadged guitar. That would make your guitar pretty cool, and it might suggest that there was an overstock rework and clearance sale from the factory.
- if other samples of 1974 GB26 are all white labeled (no inlay), then I might have a very rare and unique piece of guitar making history...

Cheers!

[charles]

Thanks for sharing. The El Degas brand continues to be full of surprises.

[Barry]

Hi BigBadBear and thanks for this interesting post.

I have never seen this sort of effect on a head stock logo before, so it makes me stop and think hard about what's going on here. The one picture you show is rather indistinct and it takes a bit of faith to squint to see the Ibanez logo, but there does appear to be something going on there.

I agree with Charles that it makes little economic sense to re-badge an already branded guitar, particularly if, as you suggest, it is an apparently very rare occurrence. It would likely mean that this was a factory 'second' so to have a lot of them would not speak well of the manufacturer!

And let's also be clear. Ibanez is a brand name, not a manufacturer. The Ibanez brand is owned by Hoshino Japan and still makes some of its models there. The chances of Hoshino making a whole bunch of seconds for rebadging is very slim.

In the end it's all guess work, and Charles and I have played Ring-Around-The-Headstock for a few years now trying to ascertain who made el Degas.
So far the answer seems to be, just about everyone! (With a heavy emphasis on Chushin Gakki)

As a final thought, you might get a better view of this anomoly if you look at under ultraviolet light in the dark. It's very good at showing imperfections in construction.

Edit: I nearly forgot. . .very nice work on the resto!

[charles]

I would love to have one of these GB-26's in-hand to inspect for myself. It's so hard to go off of low res images on the internet!

[Barry]

Just had another (speculative) thought.
My el Degas MIJ Dove is a high end reproduction and it's still my favourite acoustic, just beautifully made. But it carries the Model number GB25 as do many other versions of the Dove, some not so great.

I always though it was odd that the same Gibson reproduction would have two model numbers. So perhaps the 26 indicated a "second" rebrand??

[charles]

I believe the GB-26 is a copy of the Hummingbird

[Barry]

Ooops!
Of course you're right. Senior moment!

[charles]

It happens to all of us!

[BigBadBear]

Hi Barry,

Thanks for the appreciation of the restoration.

The image is indeed blurry. It is difficult to seize in a picture.
But the Ibanez logo is crystal clear when you have it in hand and look at the right angle and slightly move the angle.
There was also another similar example in the Ibanez Collectors forum but it was a no name headstock.
So it is not unique, but it is the only known sample that have another brand name on it.

I am still looking forward to have it X-Ray. But this is not necessarily easy unless you pay big money for a specialized service.
The x-ray will reveal it more clearly for sure.

Your GB25 might also be from a Concord production line but this is difficult to prove.
Does it have a serial number or a number stamped on the neck block? If it does, you might want to register on the Ibanez collector forum and look for the "serial" number database. They have a list of models and their neck block stamp. If you get lucky, you might have the same number as an existing Ibanez model, and this would suggest that your GB25 was done at the Ibanez Concord production line.

Finally, the 26 is simply a different model as it was from the Concord 755 production line.
If the GB25 came from an Ibanez production line, then it would be from the Concord 693 production line.

I have a few other vintages that came from known brands, but they don't have the inlay.
I have one 1974 (approx) Kiso Suzuki W65 build with another brand on it.
I have 2 1980's Sigma Martin DM3 builds with another brand on them.
I also have another Ibanez Concord 684 with another brand on it.
How do I know? Each of them have some unique signatures that reveals their origin.

They were all cheap picks, and they were all in pretty good condition except for the GB26.
Of course, they all needed some TLC: bridge reset, fret leveling, sometimes new nut or new tuning keys, and a good setup.

I also exchanged mails with someone at Hoshino Ghakki in the early 2000 and he confirmed that they used to produce many independent labels from the same Ibanez Concord production line and that the guitars were 100% identical.
The challenge is: they don't have any records of what was made for who and based on which production line.
So we can only rely on specific signatures to establish the likely provenance, except for my GB26, which does have the Ibanez inlay hidden underneath the lacquer.

All in all, this is just an interesting story about the guitar making history during the 70's.

Cheers!

[Barry]

...the Ibanez logo is crystal clear when you have it in hand and look at the right angle and slightly move the angle...I am still looking forward to have it X-Ray.

I did mention trying an ultraviolet light. That's usually pretty effective and cheap to do.

Your GB25 ...Does it have a serial number or a number stamped on the neck block?...If the GB25 came from an Ibanez production line, then it would be from the Concord 693 production line.

No, the serial is on the label inside the sound hole. #4020145
But there is a number stamped into the back brace near the neck block #611015

There is no chance of my GB25 being a re-badged anything, the el Degas logo is inset in MOP and would be original.

I also exchanged mails with someone at Hoshino Ghakki in the early 2000 and he confirmed that they used to produce many independent labels from the same Ibanez Concord production line and that the guitars were 100% identical. ...The challenge is: they don't have any records of what was made for who and based on which production line.

Yup, par for the course for just about all the Japanese builders of the time. There are a bizillion orphan brand names out there.