This damn Covid19 Pandemic has blessed me with more time on my hands than usual, and there's only so many home projects, walks, and lawn mowing a fella can take, ya know?
My thoughts started wandering to el Degas and the misery of not having any information on serial number interpretation.
For a long while I have noticed that there seemed to be a lot of MIJ acoustics with serial numbers beginning with "4" so I thought I'd have a short browse through the site and see how many I could find, and if there was any obvious connection between them.
This is, by no means, an exhaustive list but the preliminary results are encouraging and I think I may have figured out a small piece of the puzzle.
These models relate to Japanese made acoustics only, all obtained in roughly the same time frame (1974-76).
GB 25 Gibson Dove 4020145
GB 23 Gibson Hummingbird 4070134
GB 25 Gibson Dove 4080087
MT 18 Martin 4090021
GB 25 Gibson Dove 4090370
MT ?1 Martin 4100035
MT 18 Martin 4100086
GL 35 Guild 4100122
GB 26 Gibson Sunburst 4120316
The pattern I believe I am seeing is this:
First digit =The Year (1974 in this case)
Next 2 digits = The Month
5th 6th 7th digits = Monthly Production Number
and the 4th digit? = wishful thinking in case they had orders for over a thousand!
This is similar to Matsumoku's numbering system in the same era. It would be great if these were made at Mats, but it's still anyone's guess who. Chushin Gakki appears to have been involved in the solid body electrics, particularly the LP models, but I don't know for sure if they made acoustics.
Whoever it was they made fine instruments and I would submit that based on the above, that Japanese made models bearing a 4 prefix serial number at least came from the same plant in the same year.
Possible Serial Number Interpretation
- Barry
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- Location: St. Catharines, Ontario Canada
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Possible Serial Number Interpretation
"A little song, a little dance. A little seltzer down your pants." --Chuckles the Clown
M U S I C : http://getback.barryeames.com
G U I T A R S : https://legend.barryeames.com/
M U S I C : http://getback.barryeames.com
G U I T A R S : https://legend.barryeames.com/
Re: Possible Serial Number Interpretation
That is a really interesting theory!! You may be on to something there, Barry.
All the best!
All the best!
I started ElDegas.com many years ago to help celebrate and inform about El Degas instruments. It all started with a used Ric 4000 bass copy I bought in circa 2000.
El Degas stable as of 03/2022: 42 (13 bass, 26 electric, 3 acoustic)
El Degas stable as of 03/2022: 42 (13 bass, 26 electric, 3 acoustic)
- Barry
- Posts: 1038
- Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:31 pm
- Location: St. Catharines, Ontario Canada
- Contact:
Re: Possible Serial Number Interpretation
Cheers Charles.
Hope all is well out there in Virus land!
Hope all is well out there in Virus land!
"A little song, a little dance. A little seltzer down your pants." --Chuckles the Clown
M U S I C : http://getback.barryeames.com
G U I T A R S : https://legend.barryeames.com/
M U S I C : http://getback.barryeames.com
G U I T A R S : https://legend.barryeames.com/
Re: Possible Serial Number Interpretation
Let's just say it's a great time to be inside playing all these guitars
I started ElDegas.com many years ago to help celebrate and inform about El Degas instruments. It all started with a used Ric 4000 bass copy I bought in circa 2000.
El Degas stable as of 03/2022: 42 (13 bass, 26 electric, 3 acoustic)
El Degas stable as of 03/2022: 42 (13 bass, 26 electric, 3 acoustic)
Re: Possible Serial Number Interpretation
Hey Barry! I posted my GB24 some time ago on here (10+ years!) and still trying to track down when it was actually made. This was my fathers El Degas who has long passed. My mother remembers him having it at least a few years before they married in 1972 so she's thinking '69 or'70 he must have bought it (in store likely in or near Brantford, Ontario). If I understand your analysis correctly this unfortunately doesn’t match up with 1974.
GB24 Gibson Hummingbird s/n 4070158
Charles also saw your Jan 30 2022 post on model numbers. Is there ever going to be a solution to the El Degas serial number mystery?
GB24 Gibson Hummingbird s/n 4070158
Charles also saw your Jan 30 2022 post on model numbers. Is there ever going to be a solution to the El Degas serial number mystery?
- Barry
- Posts: 1038
- Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:31 pm
- Location: St. Catharines, Ontario Canada
- Contact:
Re: Possible Serial Number Interpretation
Thanks for the info adam.
I was speculating on the year of manufacture but I also said:
I was speculating on the year of manufacture but I also said:
If we can corroborate your experience that would indeed through a monkey wrench into the time based theory! But we have seen a lot of models now both here and for sale elsewhere and there is strong correlation between the top end MIJ builds and the "4" prefix. It may indeed indicate a factory rather than the year of build but so far the jury's still out.Whoever it was they made fine instruments and I would submit that based on the above, that Japanese made models bearing a 4 prefix serial number at least came from the same plant in the same year.
We've been asking that question for years!adam wrote:Is there ever going to be a solution to the El Degas serial number mystery?
"A little song, a little dance. A little seltzer down your pants." --Chuckles the Clown
M U S I C : http://getback.barryeames.com
G U I T A R S : https://legend.barryeames.com/
M U S I C : http://getback.barryeames.com
G U I T A R S : https://legend.barryeames.com/
Re: Possible Serial Number Interpretation
All signs point to "no".
No info from the original manufacturer(s) and importer exists; and anecdotally from what we've seen in the instruments, even the manufacturers themselves did not really seem to apply serial numbers consistently or uniformly.
Perhaps if we had the power to create a larger users' registry of instruments and their corresponding S/Ns we could start to discern some sort of rhyme or reason to them, but I for one think its a fools errand for the reasons stated above.
I just thank my lucky stars that at least the model numbers seem to mostly have a sense of purpose to them!! Thank goodness for small graces, as they say.
I started ElDegas.com many years ago to help celebrate and inform about El Degas instruments. It all started with a used Ric 4000 bass copy I bought in circa 2000.
El Degas stable as of 03/2022: 42 (13 bass, 26 electric, 3 acoustic)
El Degas stable as of 03/2022: 42 (13 bass, 26 electric, 3 acoustic)