New to me GB24

[matty]

Hi, great forum here for El Degas!

Up until Christmas day this year, I've never heard of El Degas guitars. A friend of my family found this guitar under a tarp in a shed in Cape Breton (Nova Scotia) and gave it to my mother to leave in my stocking. It came very dirty, with rusty frets, missing pieces and well, to be honest, I thought is was a piece of crap. But I took it home and fixed it up and turned out to be a nice looking, really good sounding!, 12 string acoustic! Merry christmas to me!!!









I realize from scanning through this forum that not a lot of info is available on these guitars, but any would be appreciated. Especially the age of the guitar.
Happy strumming!
-matt

[micheldegas]

Hi!

Nice one!
Do you have pics of "before" so we can really appreciate your good work?

Charles will be the one to help you with dating. What is special is that it have a S/N which is very rare but no "Made in"?

Your are lucky that it seems to have no wood damages for the way it have been stored.

Bye!
Michel

[Barry]

Hi matty, and welcome to the ED forums.
What luck you had, that is a gorgeous guitar!
This is a copy of a Gibson Hummingbird model, but I have never seen a 12 string version before...wow!

It looks like there was a sticker on the back of the headstock. My guess is that it was black with gold lettering that said "Made in Japan", very common for this era guitar. My guess is that it was made in the early to mid 70's. I have a Dove model about the same vintage.

What you have is a superbly made replica guitar made of the best quality materials and top craftsmanship: mahogany sides and back, solid spruce sound board. Hang on to her!

[charles]

Cool, a 12-string Hummingbird copy! I like it.

Definitely MIJ (Made in Japan) judging from the logo style. That logo style usually denotes the generally "higher-end" copies El Degas made.

Enjoy it!

[mikedem]

What a beauty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I want it , I want it , I want it

[matty]

Thanks for the replies fellas!

I'm glad you all like the guitar. I do consider myself very lucky to have this beauty fall in my lap. For $20 in parts/strings and about 4 hours of work, I can't complain. It still needs a final adjustment to bring the action down a little. Anyone ever replace that adjustable metal saddle piece with an all wood piece? It's the only thing about this guitar that makes me question it's quality.

Sorry, No pics of the condition I recieved the guitar in. I only thought to take some as I was putting the strings on. I'll post a few more of them when I get a chance.

I have 3 other acoustic guitars. One classical that was made my "Pan" (Can't find any info on them) It was made about 45 years ago and has a really nice sound and nice action. A Yamaha model (bout $300, 1997). Sounds nice, about what you would expect from a $300 Yamaha. A washburn (bout $900, made in 2000). The washburn sounds like crap acoustically but sounds good plugged in. The point of all this is my new El Degas smokes them all !!! It is well balanced and has incredible volume compared to my other guitars.

Anyways enough ranting, I'm currently looking for a bass if anyone is selling. I would now buy an ElDegas in a heartbeat!

Cheers, Matt

[mikedem]

The point of all this is my new El Degas smokes them all !!! It is well balanced and has incredible volume compared to my other guitars.

Cheers, Matt

As Charles would say "that's been know to happen"

[Barry]

...It still needs a final adjustment to bring the action down a little. Anyone ever replace that adjustable metal saddle piece with an all wood piece? It's the only thing about this guitar that makes me question it's quality...

I'm not sure I understand what you're referring to matty. As far as adjusting the action is concerned, the first thing to check is the neck, especially on a 12 string which has considerable tension on it. Assuming it's OK then the bridge is the next likely component to adjust.

Your bridge is the same as mine: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31

On these models the saddle height is adjusted via those bolts at either end of the bridge. The bridge itself is the wooden part and is fixed. If you have run out of adjustment, and the action is still too high, then the saddle can be removed and "shaved" down to give you a bit more relief (it will be made of plastic or bone, not metal). Or, if you can find an off the shelf replacement, you can simply pop a new one in the slot. Caution though: this is a compensated saddle. Be sure you shave/sand the bottom not the top.

...The point of all this is my new El Degas smokes them all !!! It is well balanced and has incredible volume compared to my other guitars...

Yup! Amazing quality.

[charles]

Anyone ever replace that adjustable metal saddle piece with an all wood piece? It's the only thing about this guitar that makes me question it's quality.

Those adjustable bridgepiece were the style at the time (and better than the previous iteration, an all-metal tunomatic that pretty much all sources say took away from the sound and sustain of the acoustic guitar). Personally, unless it's causing an actual problem I'd keep it - it does appear to be a compensated bridgepiece and the adjustability fromt he two screws is probably a big plus. My Dove copy is missing its adjustable bridgepiece, and it suffers for it.

[Barry]

Something I forgot to mention matty:
If you have to sand the saddle be careful that you do not take it so low as to reduce the string "break" angle to the pins. This is critical in transmitting the vibration to the sound board; too shallow and you'll lose considerable energy and hence, volume.

As I look again at your pictures, you appear to have quite a bit of height there. I suspect that you'll have enough adjustment to be able to reduce the action satisfactorily using just your screwdriver!

[matty]

As far as adjusting the action is concerned, the first thing to check is the neck, especially on a 12 string which has considerable tension on it.

What specifically would I look for when checking the neck? It appears straight, but I'm not too sure how to check the neck angle in relation to the string height. Any elaboration on that point?

If you have run out of adjustment, and the action is still too high, then the saddle can be removed and "shaved" down

This is the case with my guitar. I had to buy the saddle where the original was missing. The screw adjustments are at their lowest and the action is still too high. I'll wait on shaving it down until I figure out the proper neck adjustment.

Personally, unless it's causing an actual problem I'd keep it...

I don't think I'll mess with it for now

Thanks for the input, can't wait to fine tune this one to get it just right. By the way, love the dove 6 string with the "slash mark" inlays. Really sharp!

-matt

[charles]

I'd look at that saddle - it does appear very high as Barry noted.

Problem I've found is that saddles for these guitars are kind of hard to come by. Since you have one that fits in there and has adjustment you may wish to have it shaved and reshaped - don;t forget to have the radius match your fingerboard radius. That's my problem right now on my Dove copy - the piece of Tusq in there right now is poorly shaped and does not have a proper radius on it, resulting in dead spots and buzzing (but good enough for just mucking around on music concepts).

[Barry]

What specifically would I look for when checking the neck? It appears straight, but I'm not too sure how to check the neck angle in relation to the string height...

What you ideally want is an almost flat neck, but not quite; there should be a very small "dip" approximately in the middle, Not a big gap, all you are trying to do is offer the neck a little relief so you can fret the strings in the higher register without buzzing. Rather than get into a long winded "how to" here, do a Google search on "guitar neck or truss rod adjustment". There's lots of videos and step by step information out there to follow. It's not rocket science, but if you're not confident in making your own truss rod adjustment, take it to a pro. I'd hate to see this instrument end up as vintage toothpicks!

I had to buy the saddle where the original was missing. The screw adjustments are at their lowest and the action is still too high. I'll wait on shaving it down until I figure out the proper neck adjustment.

I'll assume you are turning the bolts in the right direction!
Did you replace with a Gibson part or a generic piece? It's rather important to get the correct compensation angles too.

By the way, love the dove 6 string with the "slash mark" inlays. Really sharp!

Thanks! I've had her a long time, and she's still a beauty.

[charles]

Bear in mind that many Gibson parts do NOT fit properly due to the MIJ instruments using metric.
Therefore replacing certain parts can be a bit tricky.

[Barry]

Bear in mind that many Gibson parts do NOT fit properly due to the MIJ instruments using metric.
Therefore replacing certain parts can be a bit tricky.

True enough Charles, but I don't think there should be an issue with the compensation measurements/positioning, the guitar's scale size does not change. But perhaps in the width or thickness of the saddle material?