ElDegas serial number

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strumminking
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Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:50 pm

ElDegas serial number

Post by strumminking »

Hi, I am new to the forum, thanks for having me on board. I love digging for information and find it fascinating to investigate the unknown or at least the murky waters of serial number decoding. I have a GL36N El Degas. To be honest, I have no idea what the 'GL' means or what the '36N' represents although I suppose the '36' is probably just the model number. I have several vintage Guild guitars, the oldest being a 1963 Guild Slim Jim semi hollow body electric and my newest Guild is a 1999. I don't know if the Japanese craftsmen that built these El Degas guitars used similar serial number patterns to the guitar models they were copying but in Guild guitar serial number terms, the first number is usually the year of build. The other numbers are related to the month, place of manufacturer and the number of production for that year. For example, my GL36N El Degas is a replica of a Guild D55. A Guild D55 in 1970 starts with serial number 46696. The serial number on my El Degas starts with a '4' also. Maybe Gibson copy El Degas guitars and other copies of guitars have serial numbers that are similar in the way they are listed? I don't know but I am finding this useful to try to figure out. There are answers to these serial number mysteries and it would be great if there could be definitive answers. I'm just sharing a possibility. My El Degas guitar model is GL36N and the serial number is 4070161. If it follows the pattern of the Guild guitar they were copying, it would make it a 1970 El Degas GL36N. Lets keep searching!
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charles
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Re: ElDegas serial number

Post by charles »

Model numbers

On your instrument, GL- means it's a copy of a Guild (as you already know). The XX-00Y model numbering is pretty standard across the line (with the 'Y' variable only being used on some models where there are different finishes).

XX-00Y
XX = What manufacturer being copied
00 = Internal model number, varies between different replica lines - figuring out which model number this means it replicates is usually pretty easy, but not always! (There are some Martin copies that may not be direct 1:1 replicas and are more "general" copies)
Y = If used, seems to denote finish type

Yours is a GL-36N
GL = Guild
36 = Internal model number 36
N = Natural finish

Serial numbers

Honestly, even though I have 30+ El Degas instruments, have been buying them since around 1999, and run eldegas.com I do not pay much attention to serial numbers.

Several reasons for this:
- Serial numbers are on the acoustics only.
- They also seem inconsistently applied and utilized across the acoustic instrument line. They seemed to abandon them fully pretty early on - I even have an ED acoustic with a Serial number line on the sound hole label that they left blank.
- No documentation exists from the manufacturer, head company/importer (B&J Music; or later, Kaman), or anyone else to tell us what they mean.
- Possible inconsistencies in the serial numbers they did use mean that coming up with a general blanket understanding of the serial numbers may lead to possible misinformation rather than understanding. I think drawing any direct connection from serial numbers on the original instruments and their ED copies is a real gamble that I would not trust to be giving you any accurate information.

Don't let that stop you from trying to sleuth them and figure them out, but unfortunately I will not be able to be much of a help.
I started ElDegas.com many years ago to help celebrate and inform about El Degas instruments. It all started with a used Ric 4000 bass copy I bought in circa 2000.

El Degas stable as of 03/2022: 42 :shock: (13 bass, 26 electric, 3 acoustic)
strumminking
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Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:50 pm

Re: ElDegas serial number

Post by strumminking »

Charles, Thanks so much for the kind and informative reply. With owning so many vintage Guilds currently and over the years, serial numbers is part of the DNA to prove if a guitar was made in Hoboken, NJ, Westerly, RI, etc. Guilds, as you know are very pricey guitars and were never made or marketed the way that Fender does to a 'Walmart' buying sector. Fender is more of a marketing company than a musical instrument company these days. Anyway, the serial number chase is something that I am so used to doing that I think it's just archaeologically fun for me. Numbers mean things. To me, there always has to be an answer why things are done a certain way - even if that answer turns out to be that they had no rhyme or reason for the numbers they chose. Basically, I'm just interested in learning the year my Degas GL36N is. I know it's early 70s, I was just hoping it would be a 1970 because that was the year I graduated from school. :) I guess it's just my nature to try to get answers. It sounds possibly like the end of the road and the search journey may be over - at least for now.

Do you have any knowledge about Japanese Guitar Tuning machine brands from the 70s? I know there was Gotoh but I have been doing a search for the company, probably no longer in business, that made these tuners. The reason I ask, I was curious if you have sealed gold tuners like this on any of your El Degas guitars. These are on my 1976 Guild G37.

/Users/apple/Desktop/Chrome Tuners.JPG

Thanks again Charles!!! http://www.TheRetroRocketts.com D
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Barry
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Re: ElDegas serial number

Post by Barry »

Hi strumminking and welcome to the wonderful world of el Degas serial frustration!
The most asked questions on the forum are, "when was my guitar made?" and "who made it?"

A few of us have been trying to get a handle on serials and builders it seems like forever. Some years ago, I teamed up with another Forum member to visit Kaman to try and find out...well, anything about the B&J era imports. Nada!

Since ED was a white label brand it was made to order by a carousel of manufacturers. In the case of Japan and Korea, many excellent ones in the 70's and 80's. Later on, the quality began to suffer as production moved elsewhere.

As Charles has detailed, that's about all that can really be said about serials but I did add my 2¢ worth of speculation about serials in a post here:
https://www.eldegas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1981

Interestingly the "4" prefix is confirmed in your case too which strengthens the thesis a bit.
Are we further ahead? Dunno.
strumminking
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Re: ElDegas serial number

Post by strumminking »

Thanks for the reply and info Barry. I believe your assessment is perhaps the most reasonable assumption we can decipher regarding the S#s.

The information that you and Charles have provided me with are much appreciated and I believe I can live with the fact that my guitar was built somewhere between 1970 and 1974, considering the various concepts and interpretations of the S# variations.

Like I have mentioned, I suppose I am a person who loves the 'search' as much as the 'result'. There are people who are great at creating a business but horrible ate running it.

Anyway, I sincerely thank you and Charles for sharing your extensive research with me rearing the history of these guitars and I am grateful that there is this web site where we can all share our passion for the instruments. Now. . . .I have to figure out the best way to post photos. HA!

Don
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charles
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Re: ElDegas serial number

Post by charles »

Do not let my apathy towards ED serial numbers keep you from continuing to research! You could be the one to "crack the code", in tandem with Barry's already excellent info and theory.

I don't know much about Japanese tuners other than I like Gotohs for the most part :mrgreen: On my ED acoustics (currently have 3 of them) the Martin copy has sealed tuners, and the two Gibson copies have closed-back ones. I assume all are original but this may or may not be true.

As for photos, once you have them on an image sharing website such as Imgur or Photobucket you just need to post an IMG tag in your post to have them show up. The usage is:

Code: Select all

[img]https://image.url[/img]
I started ElDegas.com many years ago to help celebrate and inform about El Degas instruments. It all started with a used Ric 4000 bass copy I bought in circa 2000.

El Degas stable as of 03/2022: 42 :shock: (13 bass, 26 electric, 3 acoustic)
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Bill1
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Re: ElDegas serial number

Post by Bill1 »

Pretty heavy stuff . Well gotta go play now
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