El Degas Plywood (Mahogany Finish) Baritone Uke (EU-55) MIJ

Geo · Post by **Geo** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:49 am

A few weeks back I was taking a gander through a local junk shop (so few around now) and came across what the owner called a kid's toy. Amongst a ton of crap there was a small case, very dirty and grimy. What I mistaken for a kid's toy guitar, inside the case, was more or less in the same condition, covered in grim and so forth. But something about it told me it wasn't a toy but a legitimate instrument. I haven't had experience with Ukes before so I didn't recognize it for what it was.

After making the purchase for 5 dollars (CDN), I took her home, spend a few days doing some cleaning/restoration and she is now becoming the beauty that she once was.

I have been told by 3 different guitar speciality shops here in Toronto that she is either a tenor or baritone ukulele. All the folks I talked to said that they weren't aware of El Degas making any such instrument of the Tenor/Baritone type. Apparently it is made of mahogany although that wasn't certain.

The challenge is that I can't find any history/patents on it what so ever. Someone suggested that the EU-55 probably stands for ukulele, 1955. Anyhooo, I plan to enjoy her and possibly collect other El Degas Ukes if I can locate them as it is a beautiful looking instrument.

Peace, Geo

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Barry · Post by **Barry** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:24 am

Welcome to the party Geo!
Man, I just love these stories.
We all fantasize about finding a gem in a junk store.. but you actually did it!

I know diddly squat about the El Degas ukes (or any ukes for that matter) but I do know that El Degas was a prolific maker of a range of instruments which extended beyond guitars.

Many of them as you can see by looking around here are superbly made. Judging by your pix this quality approach applies to ukes too. It looks like top of the line materials and finish to me. And MIJ as well, which usually means best-of-breed for El Degas. But good luck trying to find any info on it. (Unless Charles has something up his sleeve).

At first look the wood appears to be mahogany, but now I'm not so sure. The grain is amazing if it is, and likely quite rare now.

BTW---have you strung 'er up yet? How's she sound?

And $5.00 for the uke AND case???!!!
Seriously.

Cheers!

Geo · Post by **Geo** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:11 am

Thanks Barry. She is indeed a beauty. I think the 5 dollars applied because the owner was of the honest opinion that it was a kids toy guitar. If he only knew.

The grain is indeed amazing. I will add a few more pics of some of the other areas so you can see her in more detail (head board, etc). It has almost a tiger eye effect in the right light. I cant seem to get anyone to agree specifically what the wood may be.

I was told that El Degas did make an assortment of instruments but no one had seen such a large variety of ukulele from them and of higher quality material as you said.

Oh she is indeed sweet sounding. Almost a soft guitar like tonal quality which is unusually deep for ukes as I understand it. I have her presently destringed as I gently get her back in shape. There were two metal strings on her when I found her. I have no idea what they were, not your common typical uke (nylon) string.

There are a few areas that have some type of black sticky tar like stuff on her still. Have no idea what it is but its slowly coming off. I also love that old antique wood smell that is present when you open the case. Timely art piece.

Now to hunt down more. I would ultimately like to find the 3 other types of ukes if El Degas released them. Surprising that no one has any catalogues or detailed info considering how long they were around and how prolific they were.

Peace, Geo

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:30 pm

The view through the sound hole definitely looks to be mahogany, but from the outside---wow, it's like nothing I've seen!
Since you mentioned a tar like substance I'm now wondering if the top (or indeed the whole thing) was originally finished in something other than a natural finish, and a previous owner had tried to remove it to expose the wood??? If so, we can only speculate as to what that original finish might be.

Most "serious" ukes I've seen tend not to have a covering finish at all but who knows what they were thinking 30 years ago? I'm guessing it could possibly have been some kind of painted "cheesy" Hawaiian scene? If so better to get rid I guess.
Hmmm...

You're also lucky the high tension from the steel strings didn't screw up the neck!
There is such a thing as a tenor guitar
http://www.tenorguitar.com/
so maybe the bozo who had this previously tried to turn this beautiful uke into one! If so, what the hell were they thinking?

That now begs the question, "just how big is this uke?"

Cheers!

Geo · Post by **Geo** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:52 pm

Here are a few more pics to ponder over:

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[/img]http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak ... 2068_n.jpg[/img]

Hi Barry,

Yeah, the wood seems to be a bit confusing. I've got people saying its mahogany, mahogany rose, sapele and so. The tar stuff seems to be from something that may have held it in the case as it fits a pattern cross the back of the neck and not spread over the instrument so I dont think it was a wood treatment or what have you. I could be wrong of course. I used a trick that my maternal grandfather (a master guitarist in his own right) mentioned to me once about treating old guitars. I lightly damped a soft cotton cloth with canola oil of all things and gave it a gentle rub down every two days for about 2 weeks. Not alot just enough to make the cloth slightly damp. Then a week of soft cloth buffing. Each application has to be in tiny circles. Viola.

The steel strings made no sense what so ever so I am thinking whoever had it previously either didnt know what they were doing or was a newbie and may have been convinced by someone (friend / guitarist / eager saleman?) to do such. Possible that they thought it was a tenor guitar although it doesnt have proper reinforcement to be able to use the steel strings. Amazingly there seems to be very little if any damage because of it. A little bit of wear on the frets which tells me that the person did indeed play the instrument with the steel strings!!

The headstock and tuning pegs have me a bit confused as they are not typical uke setup as I understand it. They are a guitar setup. Hmmm. There are 19 frets. On the back of the headstock there is a small white sticker with a blue box and blue text that says Made In Japan. I think the fret inlays may be plastic although I cant really tell. Could have the tuning pegs been changed? No signs that they were altered (no markings).

It isnt a tenor guitar as it doesnt have enough frets as per the info on that site that you kindly provided. She is 30 inches end to end. 20 inches nut to bridge. The body is about 14 inches. I've confirmed that as per the info / measurements provided by Wikipedia that she is most likely a Baritone Ukulele, not a Tenor as the guitar stores insisted. One puzzle solved..... I think!

Someone suggested that the EU-55 may stand for Epiphone Ukulele 55 (1955) although I have absolutely no proof of this. I dont have access to a catalogue of old uke styles to see if she even matches any other type.

I went back to the junk shop to see if I can get more info from the owner. He was rather closed mouth but did mention that an elderly gentleman had brought that in as well a couple of guitars (couldn't get him to tell me anything more about them). I have an agreement with him that if this person comes in again to get some info and I will give him a few bucks if it pans out.

Is there a way to change the thread title as she isnt a tenor anymore but a baritone? I would be curious to eventually found out via the forum if there is anyone else out there with El Degas Ukes.

Peace, Geo

Geo · Post by **Geo** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:11 am

I hereby christen this beautiful instrument Ellie in honour of the El Degas line from which she is descended. I got the case open and looking at her now. I do love that antique wood smell that she gives off. Timeless.

Peace, Geo

Geo · Post by **Geo** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 6:02 am

A couple more pics.

Peace, Geo

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:12 am

Hey again Geo.
Well from these pix at least Ellie's neck definitely appears to be mahogany.

And granddad gave you good advice on the removal of "sticky crap" from wood surfaces. Good old vegetable oil will soften and remove stuff like gum and hard adhesive residue with no scrubbing or scraping needed. 'Course you get the added benefit of nourishing the wood too.

Still can't help think though, that this must have originally had some sort of finish (matte rather than shiny). And the more I study it, the more it seems that it should also have some sort of edge binding or painted trim? The wood's nice but I think it would be in keeping with El Degas' fit and finish to have something there to complement the sound hole trim. Or am I all wet?

The tuners appear to be "vintage" and the low gear ratio seems correct to me for a low-tension nylon type stringing.

“Curiouser and curiouser!” cried Alice (she was so much surprised, that for the moment she quite forgot how to speak good English).

Geo · Post by **Geo** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:58 pm

Hi Barry,

Yeah, Im also of the opinion that the neck is mahogany although the rest I dont yet know for certain, too many different opinions. The vegetable oil route was one of his preferences. His take was the more organic the approach the more wholistic the treatment for the instrument. I think it is a matte treatment although the luster / grain effect is something uncommon to me. I unfortunately have limited knowledge in regard to the binding (although I think this is definitely an exercise in learning). I will take a few more close ups tomorrow during the day light to see if that reveals any more clues. Its good to know that the tuners are appropriate as I was debating if they were an addon. Most ukes that I know of from the 70s going back have vertical tuners, not horizontal. Thanks for your help Barry. Im getting closer to establishing a hodge podge history for this old girl.

Peace, Geo

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:34 pm

Hey yer welcome Geo but fer Pete's sake don't take anything I say about ukes as being definitive.
It's just educated guesswork on my part.

Charles is the resident expert here in all things El Degas.

Your comment about vertical tuners is true enough, but I'm thinking mainly because of the size of the instrument, and partly because El Degas was primarily a guitar maker, that it would have been natural to emulate a guitar headstock?? Certainly newer baritone ukes have this same assembly today.

On the smaller ukes you would almost certainly be forced to install the tuners straight through from back to front. There just isn't room on the headstock to do otherwise.

And...I'm just now realizing (duh!) that Ellie has a proper rosewood fretboard. I don't know if that's a normal feature of ukes but I'm guessing not. That also speaks to the guitar making heritage.

Cheers!

Geo · Post by **Geo** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:15 pm

You make a good point about the tuners. Never thought about that space limitation and the fact that El Degas was guitarcentric (hey I made a new word!). I had no clue what the fret board may have been composed of.

Im taking Ellie to the 12th Fret (here in Toronto on the Danforth) tomorrow to get new strings (got tenor uke strings which of course are not the right ones) and see if the boys there can shed any further light.

The Ukulele Hall of Fame seems even stumped by her. They suggested that the body was mahogany which at this point seems to be the common census. Their age guess was 1960-1970s which was my first guess and cancels out the suggestion that the EU-55 tied to 1955. The E standing for Epiphone is still open. Outside of that they didnt know what more to say on her either.

I'm also bringing Ellie to a close friend and guitar genius tomorrow and he is going to string her up and give her a good running to see what she can do. Let you know what I learn and how she performs. Maybe make a recording although no promises.

Peace, Geo

Geo · Post by **Geo** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:27 pm

Even though they were gracious enough to respond to my email, Ellie didnt warrant enough history/interest/brand name to get listed on the Museum's webpage!. Booooooo. I thought the general rule of thumb was that anything over 30 years was considered "vintage". Oh well.

http://www.ukulele.org/?Vintage_Ukulele_Q_%26amp%3B_A

Peace, Geo

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:33 am

You can't go wrong with the boys at Twelfth Fret, they are the masters!
One of their luthiers, Gord, recently did a neck re-set on my 1990 Ovation Elite 1868 and I was amazed at how quickly and carefully it was done. Completely restored her to her former glory and power.
Ovation necks are almost impossible to reset but he did it like it was a walk in the park!
If anyone might have a clue about Ellie it would be someone there. They deal in vintage instruments as a matter of course, including ukes and banjos.
Good luck.

addendum: changing the topic title
In an earlier post you asked if you could change the title of the topic from Tenor to Baritone.
"Yes we can".
Just login and go to the first entry in the thread and click on EDIT. You can change the SUBJECT line there.
(This applies of course only to your own posts)

Geo · Post by **Geo** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:09 pm

Well, to keep it short the two visits I did today to both the 12th Fret and Steves were disappointing.

I got to Steves and get a person who I am told was an expert on same. He tells me that El Degas instruments were "crap" and that the company was around in the 70s- 80s and werent good for much. He says that he couldnt tell what wood Ellie was made from. He couldnt decide at first if she was tenor or baritone ukulele and then sort of lazy ass like decided probably a baritone. So visit one was a waste. I thought maybe the 12th Fret would resolve the matter.

I am passed over to a guy who knew I was told a fair bit about ukuleles. He tells me that El Degas was a company from the 70s - 80s. I got tired of hearing that and mentioned that they had a longer history then that. He says no. Then I asked him to explain how people have El Degas instruments from the 50 - 60s. No answer. Not good. He says that Ellie was intended more as a toy and is made from low quality ply wood. Of course he goes out of his way to show me expensive Kala models and insists that they are what I want. I was so depending on them as 4 different people told me that I couldnt go wrong with them. He says that she is a baritone and did what Elite Music and Steves didnt, at least, and compared her. She is a baritone ukulele. He didnt really know what the wood was as it confused him but he stated that El Degas didnt make great instruments so it wouldnt be a high quality wood. I left disappointed.

I went to my friends place and had a much better experience. He has been playing all types of string instruments since the early 80s. I walk in and show him. Bingo, its a baritone uke. He shows me his different ukes and goes a bit into the history. He says that El Degas was an on and off maker regarding good instruments and knew about the company more then the so called experts. He stringed her up, tuned her and played her for quite awhile. She sounded sweet to my ears. He liked her as well. The only comment he made that would be construed by some as negative is that the action is a bit high but may be due to the removable nut / bridge pieces being a tad high. He didnt know about the wood and compared her against his 15 guitars and nothing came up a definite match. He was thinking it may be a dark wood with a mahogany finish although he stated that was a guess. Well, at least the third visit of the day went well.

My Ellie is a possibly plywood mahogany finished baritone uke made by an enigmatic manufacturer at a unknown date for Canadian consumption. Not too bad. I like her and that is all that matters. Now to get used to the high action and get this birdy singing.

Peace, Geo

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:54 pm

Geez Geo, what a bummer experience!
Sorry you had such grief, especially at Twelfth Fret.

You didn't say if you spoke to someone on the main floor or upstairs. You might have received a more interested assessment from a luthier than a sales person. Still I guess there must be a certain amount of "snob" factor at play here, Steve's too for that matter.

And you're witnessing first hand the strange extremes that the El Degas brand seems to evoke. These guys deal all day long with vintage Gibsons, Fenders and other impressive instruments with price tags in the stratosphere, so looking at an "off brand" is not going to turn their crank I guess. Then there are others who really understand and appreciate what they've got--like the members of this forum--and they still have change left in their jeans!

Well whatever Ellie's made of she's making you happy, and that's all that matters in the end. Thanks for sharing the adventure!

Cheers.