El Degas Timeline

[shakin]

I realise that there's a lot of discussion about when and where the El Degas brand appeared in the marketplace, but has anyone determined a more exact timeline? Not the exact time and day mind you but say , the year they were first landed on the shelves, when production shifted to Korea and other manufacturing sites, to when they disappeared from sight.

[charles]

Sort of, it's pretty shaky and I really have very little concrete evidence to back it up other than the knowledge base built up from seeing the guitars and shreds of info over the last several yearss:

Late 1960's: B&J Music of New York, NY starts importing instruments from Japanese manufacturers under their white-label "El Degas" for sale in North America. Limited models (unknown exactly which were offered in this period). MIJ (Made in Japan), likely from several different manufacturers.

1970's: Peak period with models including copies of Gibson, Guild, Martin (acoustics) and Fender, Gibson, Rickenbacker, along with the Ibanez Artist-style (we sometimes attribute as an Alembic copy) (electrics). Also found are generic classical acoustics, mandolins, banjos, ukeleles. MIJ (Made in Japan), likely from several different manufacturers. It's all done in "eras" rather than years, as there seem to be no surviving records to pinpoint even exact years of major shifts or events.

[note: discerning a late 60's El Degas from a 1970's is pretty difficult and would be pure hearsay; we can notice certain traits that may point to the early days but it is not able to be proven when they were manufactured]

Very late 1970's or early 1980's: B&J Music bought out by Kaman Music of Ontario; production moves to Korea (these two events likely coincide but that cannot be proven); models include copies of Fender (you see more 'modern' 80's style HHS Strats & "Superstrats"), RIckenbackers, Gibsons (electrics) and Gibson, Martin, Guild (acoustics). Also found are generic classical acoustics, mandolins, banjos, ukeleles. MIK (Made in Korea), likely from several manufacturers.

[MIK models normally sport a different logo style and headstock design than those on the earlier MIJ models]

Sometime in the 80's production ended on El Degas guitars and B&J was primarily just the distribution arm of Kaman Music.

Sometime later (unknown date): B&J bought by Fender and brought into the Fender of America family of brands.

[shakin]

Thanks for that Charles. It's such a pity that B&J, after going to all the trouble of negotiating the production of such a wide range , couldn't keep track of it all either by themselves or from the manufacturer. Serial numbers seem to be such a rudimentary stock tracking system that it's surprising that it was so inconsistant. Then again, we see that scenario from other brands as well, especially early in 70's /80's.

Peter

[charles]

I think the focus back then was to capitalize on the bad eras both Gibson and Fender were in, and import and sell as many instruments as possible. I doubt there was ever any delusion of the brand creating any sort of legacy; it was all about commerce. My two cents.

[Barry]

Thanks for that summary Charles!
ED is one of the most frustrating brands out there to make complete sense of; so much of the line was top notch and came from the best Japanese builders of the day, while later models were of embarrassingly bad quality.

Alas, as you say Charles, it was about making a profit not a legacy. All we can do is find the best of the litter and enjoy playing them!

[charles]

Hear hear!

As much as I used to obsess about finding out about the history of these instruments, I am now just happy they were made and brought over to N America at all. I have gotten my hands on the good, the bad, and the ugly of the brand; but such is life and I now have a stable of pretty damn good guitars that I enjoy every time I give them a strum.

[shakin]

Good piece of philosophy Charles, I have applied that to women as well in the past (with limited success!)

[Barry]