El Degas Flying V - what body wood(s)?

[shinksma]

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum. I just joined because I finally got curious about a guitar I've had for thirty years, my El Degas Flying V. It matches pretty well the description in this older thread:

http://www.eldegas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=166

Lipstick red solid color, white pick guard, amber speed knobs (honestly can't remember if 3 or 4), DiMarzio Super Distortions, three-way selector, mini-toggle (stil not sure for single coil or phase inversion - I seem to recall the store clerk telling me it was phase inversion).

Except mine has a rosewood fretboard, and I slapped on a Shift2000 tremolo (with string lock behind the nut) back in 1983/1984. Oh, and I added pickup rings.

This was my main guitar for many years, until I graduated to a Strat and a Les Paul, and whole bunch of other stuff since then.

I play it rarely, but it seems to have kept itself in great playing shape.

I'll post some pics once I get a chance - I won't even need to take it out of a case, it is hanging on the wall with most of my other axes. It came with a Flying V shaped case, not sure if it is the OHSC or an aftermarket one.

Anyway, my main question is what wood would the body be made of? When I opened up the pickup cavities many years ago, it was all painted (dark blue? Black?), and frankly looked like it was super-multi-layered plywood. I'll take another look when I get home tonight...or tomorrow night...or...

This forum looks pretty awesome, but the info on Flying Vs has been a little sparse. I'll keep digging/sifting...

[charles]

Often, the routing of control cavities can make even a solid wood body look like it might be made from plywood.

The body of the Flying V ought to be all mahogany.

[Barry]

Hi shinksma. The cavity is likely painted with magnetic sheilding paint, usually a sign of a quality build. This traps stray signals and keeps the guitar output quieter. It's an inexpensive option to lining the cavity with copper foil.

Pictures would help, but if this is a Made in Japan model, as Charles says, it's going to be a solid wood body, not a laminate. If you really want to find out, you can scrape off a small section of paint to investigate.

A single mini-toggle would indicate a coil cut function to me. Phase reversal is not normally found by itself, and not normally on a humbucker guitar. More likely to see it on a single coil "Strat" type.

[shinksma]

OK, a hog body, hey? That would explain the weight...

Here's a pic:



Sorry it is a bit weirdly lit, like it is a 2D cutout: it's the evening right now, so indoor lighting and an on-board camera flash is what I used to get the shot fairly quickly.

You can see I (very poorly) modified the pick guard for the baseplate of the Shift2000 trem. There are a few dings, mostly on the upper arm of the V from where it gets slammed into doorways, walls, and other objects.

I didn't have time to look inside or scrape paint off anywhere - I'll believe you when you say mahogany.

Now that I'm looking at it, I have the pickups way too high (close to the strings), which is why it seems to feedback like there is no tomorrow. Gonna adjust and play some tonight.

Also, note that I didn't use any (additional) screws for the pickup rings, because the pickups are already mounted to the pickguard.

I abused this guitar a fair bit when I first got it lowering the action to something stupidly low. The truss rod got quite the workout as I experimented all those years ago. Of course, I haven't changed it in probably 28 years, now...

[charles]

I have found it very difficult to photograph the transparent finish. Your lighting has to be just right. That's a nice guitar, glad you are enjoying it

[shinksma]

I have found it very difficult to photograph the transparent finish. Your lighting has to be just right. That's a nice guitar, glad you are enjoying it

I'm not sure what you mean by "transparent finish". This guitar is painted solid red like an early Fender strat with the Dupont colors. There is no wood grain visible whatsoever.

Nonetheless, I did not get a chance to play it tonight - got distracted by more domestic/family activities. Maybe just before I get to bed...

[charles]

Hmm! Interesting about the opaque finish. That might change things. Sometimes, the opaque finish is to cover up a ply body (but not always). You will be able to tell if the guitar is ply by looking at the outer edge of the body and seeing if ply's are visible through the finish (they often are).

[Barry]

Keep in mind that "solid" body is a relative term.
Very seldom will you find a body which is, in fact, created out of a single piece of wood. It is more common to see several glued pieces (edge to edge). In the case of a trans finish you will see the wood grain, which of course is the point. In the case of a solid finish this is done mainly because the woods used are not a good match aesthetically. The mismatch of grains would simply not look good. The body is still "solid" just not as pretty.

A true laminate (ply) is built up in the opposite direction, vertically stacked layers. That's what we're attempting to determine here.

[charles]

In the El Degas brand, I have seen opaque finishes used to cover multi-piece solid-wood bodies as well as plywood bodies; and sometimes not covering anything at all that you would consider an aesthetic or material "flaw".

I have found that the easiest way to tell if an El Degas is made from a plywood body is to look at the guitar edge for tell-tale "ripple" in the finish of the ply's. I will try to snap a photo of this effect in the finish of my set-neck MIK Les Paul that has this effect on the guitar edge.

And, for the record - one of the greatest playing & sounding El Degas guitars I ever had was a bolt-on, plywood-body Les Paul copy that is no longer with me. All these aesthetic things sometimes don't really mean a thing when it comes to feel and sound.

[Barry]

..one of the greatest playing & sounding El Degas guitars I ever had was a bolt-on, plywood-body Les Paul copy that is no longer with me. All these aesthetic things sometimes don't really mean a thing when it comes to feel and sound.

Absolutely right Charles. The bolt-on versus set-neck argument also gets tedious. I have mostly bolt-on's and most will hold their own very nicely with the set necks for sustain and tone. As with everything in guitars, it's how it sounds in your hands that counts.

Incidentally, a cleaner way to check for ply...er, laminate construction in most guitars is to look in the pickup cavity. It is not normally painted so the layers will be obvious. Of course if the pickups are mounted to the pick guard you must remove it and check the main routing. You might want to wait until the next string change to do that though.

[charles]

Good tip, Barry. The only reason I tend to not look in control cavities & pickup cavities for laminate signs is that sometimes I have found that somewhat sloppy routing can make even a solid-wood body appear like it might be a laminate... well, that, and I am too lazy to pull pickups out

[edit - here is a lnk to a slideshow showing photos of the edge of my MIK Les Paul copy. It's almost impossible to capture the "ripple" effect the laminate ply's give to the finish in a photo but a couple of the photos almost get it. However, this is a weird guitar in that they did a transparent finish on the laminate body so you can also just see the ply's anyway ]

http://s84.photobucket.com/user/whitegr ... ate%20body

[Barry]

Wow, that's odd eh?
Somebody must have figured that would be a "feature".
Either that or they ran out of solid paint that day.

[shinksma]

Hopefully I'll have some time this weekend to have a quick look "under the hood", as it were, and maybe find some tell-tale ripple along the side of the body.

All I can remember is that when I did take off the pickguard all those years ago, it seemed blatantly obvious it was plywood - like I could see the ply layers along the sides and along the bottom where it was unevenly routed out. Like what the regular (unsanded) plywood looks like at Home Depot, etc.

[Barry]

...it seemed blatantly obvious it was plywood...Like what the regular (unsanded) plywood looks like at Home Depot, etc.

Yup, that's what it would look like alright.

Just one other comment...given the dramatic shape of the flying vee it stands to reason that a solid wood body would be an expensive build since there is a lot of waste. From a manufacturing point of view a plyw...uh, laminate construction would make more sense.

[charles]

Thanks for checking, shinkama. In the end - if the guitar feels and sounds good, the body wood is secondary.