El Degas E or F 218 ItchyFingers

[ItchyFingers]

Hi fellow guitar enthusiasts.
This is my first post here and so I'll let you know who I am and then get to the meat of it.
I am a retired individual who simply enjoys messing with guitars.
I am not much of a player and prefer to noodle around just playing what comes out of my own head.
I have a somewhat musical background having played trumpet for 7 years and drums for about the same amount of time.
I read and write music at times for up to 27 instruments in one score.
I always had a guitar around for plinking, noodling and stress relief although I have not nor desire to take the time to go through the lessons, learning everyone elses songs and so I just noodle what is in my own head loosley blues based scales and various easy to play open chords and moveable bar chords. I prefer lead type things but mix as required. Now to the El Degas meat of it.
My sister gave me a guitar her son had picked up at a garage sale or was somethign someone was throwing out.
I has El Degas on the headstock and on the tag in the sound hole, it appears to be a model E 218 or an F 218.
Even with the cracked bridge saddle with numerous chips out of it, the binding falling off both sides of the neck and the strings that must be a thousand years old and deriously out of tune (thank fully in the way loose department which seems to have saved the neck from warping too bad.). One strum seems to give a very nice resonance and sustain. It sure would be nice to have some information on this guitar. I doubt I would ever sell it but I could give it away to related kids as I often do. I think it will be a keeper though. I am near sure of it in fact.
I have built 5 Telecaster style guitars from scratch and gave most of them away but kept two which I absolutely Love and so I am not new to guitar building/repair and maintenance.
One build I have left has the traditional Tele pickup configuration using Seymour Duncan Alnico 2 pro pickups with the body and neck made out of African Bubinga (one of a kind for sure). The other has two GFS humbuckers and I built it out of century old cedar which was originally from a farm house and then sat on my mantle for years until I converted it into ramps for doing oil changes on my car and then finally cut those up to make a guitar body. I made another Bubinga neck for it.
I have rebuilt and reconfigured many guitars bot acoustic and electric.
This El Degas Acoustic is definitely able to be saved and I will post pictures of it and stuff along the way.
Can anyone tell me more about the history/age/construction of this guitar? It seems like a lot of work went into it.
Pictures to follow within the next day or two before I dive into it and make it playable. Unfortunately I can't afford even new strings for it yet. It looks like I am going to have to order a new bone saddle for it as well which is going to take a while (darn).
Nice to be here amoung other El Degas owners. I'll post my Teles in another section over time as well.
Talk to ya..

[charles]

Hi ItchyFingers and welcome.

The F- models are early MIJ (Made in Japan) copies of Martin acoustics; believed to be manufactured somewhere around the very late 60's or early 70's.

I am very interested in seeing your progress in restoring the guitar - definitely keep us up to date with photos and info on your progress. This sticky-post may be of help when you are looking to post photos, but let me know if you need help. http://www.eldegas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45

[Barry]

Hi Itchy and a warm welcome!
Sounds like you're a fellow with lots of experience under your belt and shouldn't have much difficulty getting your baby back to fighting form.

If you have an early MIJ model then it should be a well made instrument with top quality woods. As you may discover if you read around in these forums, the serial numbers and model numbers, unfortunately, are largely meaningless at this point since no real records have survived to guide us as to what they mean. Pictures when you can eh?

[ItchyFingers]

Yes, it appears to be an MIJ model by the looks of the sticker on the back. Even totally untuned (thankfully someone slackened off the strings and one strum of that totally out of tune told me I had somethign special. Pics to follow in minutes.
I'm not sure just how far to go with this one. I am tempted to do a lot of things but that would take away from the original.
I have a square bone nut blank and a square bone brigde saddle now and some strings. I coaxed the binding off the solid one piece Mahagony neck and rosewood fretboard. It didn't take much coaxing with a razor blade. I'll clean it and the fretboard to neck area with acetone and naptha. A lot of dirt had gotten down in there and just gluing the loose section woul dnot have been the best. Truss rod is beefy and in good condition. I'd say F 218 as near as I can tell now with the strings off and a magnifying glass. This puppy is old and quite dry but no splits through the wood anywhere. I think it's going to like it's new home.
Thanks for the welcome Barry.

Pic one, just seeing how it looks on the wall beside Bubinga. Yep it has found a new home:

[charles]

Sounds like she's in good hands. Enjoy the guitar and definitely keep us updated as you get her back into fighting shape.

[ItchyFingers]

Thanks Charles. I had to switch computers since my old Linux box is acting up. I'll post some more pics now.

Here's a shot of the tag.



A little blurry pic of the MIJ sticker:



Someone must have traded it for a bit of cash at one point. I believe my sister said she snagged it from someone who was throwing it out 10 years or so ago.:

[ItchyFingers]

Here's a shot of the chipped plastic Bridge saddle and broken and mismatched pins:



Gently removing the binding with a razor blade. It came off far too easily and so that was definitely a good move:



Quite successful with no tear out at all of the wood. Just a little cleaning and regluing required:

[ItchyFingers]

The rosewood and Mahogony looks good where the binding used to be. It just needs some cleaning and nearly doesn't need any scraping :



The back should clean up pretty good since there are no huge dents or holes in it:



The truss rod works well after initially getting it to move. It's beefy which is rare these days. I levelled it out to get it ready for a slight level , dress and crown. It sure doesn't need much to freshen it up. That alone is a testament to the quality of these old things that seemed to stand the test of time nicely. Many more years left in it for sure.

[ItchyFingers]

Here is a shot before I touched it. The binding was literally falling off. You can see how woggly the grain is on the fret board. With the nut now out of it, here is where I have to decide whether to pull the frets and smooth that out. I tend to press the strings pretty hard and do a fair bit of bending in my own personal (and pretty amateurish) Bluesy kind of playing. what to do, what to do. I have tons of my preferred fret wire and all the tools required to refret it. I am leaning toward leaving it original though. Yes, that is best for now. Or is it. I can't decide. I'll sleep on it since I want it to warm up in my hobby room and climatise a bit before I go any further. I keep most of my home at 14 degrees c (57 f) other than my rec room wood heated area. What to do, what to do. I don't have a 12" radius sanding beam (just a 9.5 late Tele style) and my freehand levelling is not the best. hmmmm I could use another 18" beam. Ahh I could always do it at a later date. Time will tell. Tomorrow is another day..

[ItchyFingers]

I layed a wet rag over the sticker that does not want to come off. No doubt it's been thee since the individual tradd it for cash at "cash convertors":



The new parts are begging to be shaped and installed but patience at this point is the best course of action



I'll continue my posts when I get at it again. It'll take a day to soften that sticker so it's time to move on to other things.

[Barry]

Great stuff there Itchy!
And yep, she is a beauty alright.
Looks like you don't need much help, except I will suggest you try simple vegetable oil on that sticker. It's a little slow to work so let it sit awhile, but it will loosen the old adhesive without damaging the wood.

[ItchyFingers]

Thanks. Barry. The soaked rag didn't touch it at all. It is still intact saying cash converters so I guess it was pawned until my sister snagged it at a garage sale for her son 15 years ago. It sat in her closet in a case ever since.
I'll try that oil next for sure. Right now it is sitting with the binding re-glued and curing.
I am super busy these days but had to get that in place today. It's crude but worked and is working exceptionally well.
I had to enlist some left over bubinga chinks that I hoep to use for a top for a guitar someday. That stuff is gorgeous.
Her's where she sits. I have yet to name her. I can't wait to play it but I tend to go slow on the nut making. A bit at a time and play and then adjust and then play sort of thing. It'll be a while.

]

While you're waiting you could amuse yourself for 5 minutes if you want to check out my last low cost near free build from spare parts and recycled car ramps here 9 minutes you'll never get back lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6Uj75lTChM

[ItchyFingers]

The binding turned out better than expected. I scraped the beer stains and tobacco stains and who knows what off it and I filed between the frets to get the grain flat again and then took some progressively finer grit sandpaper to the wood. The further, I go the more I like it. Somethign liek this if built today would easily top $1000 to $1500. I can't believe the quality of workmanship and materials that are in this thing. I had a Fender F-35 that I bought new in around '74 or '75 for about $500 and that was MIJ but this eclipses that one big time. I am really getting excited. My back is killing mew from shovelling snow and chopping big wood stumps for firewood but I can't stop. Help, I'm addicted. I trued up my 18" beam and then decided it was time for a break. One i get into this stuff, I can't stop. I usually end up playing them with a wet finish lol. It's a good job ZI have to cut a nut and saddle first. My goal before a welcome bed is to get one coat of Min Wax tung oil on the fretboard. Apparently that voids warranty on guitars but you haven't lived until you've felt the silky smoothness of that stuff on a finished neck. It tends to wear off pretty quickly but it soaks in too unlike laquer or poly. The end result is pure heaven. I've decided to name her El Degas Kazumi in honour of the cute Japanese girl who likely scraped the binding and between the frets and the indain rosewood (illegal to import these days as we well know). Ok so it's in memory of Kazumi from the movie DOA too. Unique and gorgeous like this guitar. Ok a few pics of the moment. I'll be posting a slideshow and sound test when it's back to original splendor.

The space between the frets smoothed out nicely and the binding is there to stay.



It's coming along:



The binding came out nicely. It'll get a few more progressive grits between the frets yet:



I can't wait to string this baby up:



Ok break is over. Back at it while I am still standing. I have to stop this nonsense of going to bed at 6 am like last night.

Talk to ya..

Tom

[Barry]

Coming along beautifully Tom! It's the sweat equity in these restorations that ultimately make them truly yours.
You're right about the quality and the equivalent current value. You'd be hard pressed to find anything similar today.

Looking forward to seeing her all dressed up and ready for the big show!

[ItchyFingers]

Thanks Barry. All I saw was a real junker when she handed it to me with the battered old case.
I am amazed how well it is turning out and how little it is taking to get it back in shape. This thing is rock solid.
We're talking solid back and sides too, I'm sure. This is one of those that you feel on your belly as it resonates I believe.
The box is pretty small but that just means it'll tuck in nicely on the couch kicked back or out in the yard entertaining the Robins if they ever decide to come back.
Leveled and crowned nicely with a thin coat of Tung oil front and back. People may say that is blasphemy but it's how I roll.
A babies bum would not compare to how smooth this feels. No sharp fret ends like is common on store bought guitars today.
I haven't even heard it tuned up yet since the binding was scary when I brought her home.
Knowing me I'll let the strings and my hands polish it over time.
I just let a thin coat of tung oil sit for 2 or 3 minutes to sink in a bit then wipe most of it back off.
I don't really recommend anyone do this due to warranties and such but this is something you feel with your eyes closed and man this one feels good so far. The top of the body has some ground in dirt that I don't think will ever come off though.
This one is a keeper till I die and then the kid can have it back...maybe. It already eclipses my Red Seal Yamaha. In spades.
I can see me grinding and filing a nut and bridge saddle tomorrow and stringing her up. No promises but, how can I resist?
I took a pile of pictures of the process and I'll try to put it all together when it's done. For now, this is what I am heading to bed thinking of and how it felt. The neck is ready for a nut. I like to end up with a relief between .004 and .006". Fender specs from the factory are .010" - .012" but that's basically so people don't whine for warranty. I'd say I'm right on target. El Degas Kazumi, it's time to kick back and let it all sink in after I get this work dirt off my hands. . What a score. I'm glad I went to Toronto to see my sis last week. Good timing. We'll see soon. I wish I knew how to play the darn things. Oh well.