B&J Music Ltd. A Kaman Music Company

[charles]

I keep forgetting to post this (soprry for the cell phone pic, my camera is lent out to a friend):



B&J Music Ltd.
A Kaman Music Company

Imagine my happy surprise to receive an El Degas I bought a year or so ago in the mail in this box!! It was a funny coincidence that the fellow acquired this box from a music store to send the guitar to me.

And imagine my surprise today when I browsed over to the Kaman site today and noticed this:
MAILING ADDRESS:
Kaman Music Canada
B&J Music Ltd.
...

So wow, not only proof of the Kaman link to B&J on the side of a box, but also finding out that Kaman is still operating B&J to this very day for some of their Canadian operations!
Okay, maybe only I will be shocked and awed by that

I've always been planning to do it, but now I'm REALLY going to contact Kaman and see if they can give me any info on B&J or El Degas (you just never know! they might be a wealth of info on something as old as B&J's El Degas ties from way back when)

[Barry]

Well, dip me in butter and roll me in nuts!
Kaman, eh? The Ovation folks!

I wonder what on earth they're doing under the B&J label today? More to the point I wonder if there's any chance that they have anything of historical or technical importance concerning El Degas that they can share with us.
And here's the kicker Charles...they're about 45 minutes away from me--talk about hiding in plain sight!
Hey, play yer cards right and maybe you can get a little sponsorship/advertising from them. A kind of nostalgia thing with hooks to their new stuff?

Let us know what progress you make, and shout if you would like me to pick up anything from them.

[charles]

I've always been aware that Kaman Music bought out B&J at some point, but I only had one piece of corroborating evidence (a listing in a trades mag from way back listing B&J as a trade name owned by Kaman Music) until the box came my way.

I sure as heck did not expect to find out that the trade name was still being used today by Kaman Music, though!

Kaman owns a boatload of good music companies making products I like (Gibraltar, Gretch drums, etc) so it's too bad we don't see any more El Degas instruments but it's nice to see the B&J kept alive.

I wonder where Buegeleisen and Jacobsen are now? I think they'd be pretty up there in years by now...

[Barry]

...I'm REALLY going to contact Kaman and see if they can give me any info on B&J or El Degas

Hey Charles...any communication with Kaman yet?
We're all a tinkle, er, tingle with anticipation!

[the52blues]

B&J is not that far from me as a matter of fact it's right 'round the corner from where I got married in July and didn't even know it so I'm going to go for a visit this week and see if Tony (the guy who used to work the back counter when I was a dealer) still works there. While I'm there I'll try to get any info I can on El Degas. Want to hook up for the visit Barry? You're not that far away either. Call me on my cell *REMOVED - PLEASE USE PM! - Charles* if you want to go. I'm thinking Wednesday morning.

[Barry]

B&J is not that far from me...While I'm there I'll try to get any info I can on El Degas. Want to hook up for the visit Barry?...

Hey Freddy, sounds like a plan! I'll try and call you sometime Monday or Tuesday.
p.s. Probably not a good idea to publish your phone number online. Use the Personal Message (PM) instead.

[the52blues]

Hi Folks. Barry and I just visited B&J Music Ltd. in Mississauga, ON and, yes, my buddy Tony still works there...and he remembered me even by name, sweet! Sadly that's about all we got out of him other than the fact that El Degas was just a name the B&J owned and used a few different manufacturers over the years to manufacture them. As you may have guessed serial numbers don't mean much and no records were kept since the computer age was just beginning then too. All printed material and catalogs etc. were pitched about 15 years ago when they moved from downtown Toronto King St. to Mississauga. Tony was just "the guy at the back counter" during those years and really doesn't remember what model number went for what copy and wasn't in on which factories made what models in what years so we really didn't learn much this trip. There are a few other sources I may try to check out in the future. Tony may be able to help me get in touch with sales and tech staff from back then that may know more. I also had a partner back then I lost track of who Tony says he saw last month so he will pass my number on to him and hopefully he may still have some of the catalogs or price sheets we used back then. Keep your fingers crossed and keep enjoying your guitars!

[charles]

Wow - thanks for checking in with B&J!
Not entirely fruitful, true... but still really interesting.

You and Barry are both great additions to the forum. Nice to have a couple of very motivated folks out in the Ontario area.

[Barry]

Thanks Charles!
Yeah, unfortunately is wasn't a fruitful venture, but at least I got to meet another El Degas enthusiast so it wasn't a total loss.
And for what it's worth I did discover three things:
1) The B&J brand is owned by Kaman Music Corporation (KMC). It's, um, finger pickin' good!
2) Kaman is now owned by Fender Musical Instruments Corporation!
3) It's pronounced Kah-'MAN (emphasis on the the "man", not KAY'-man as I've been calling it for years.)

Thanks for the adventure Fred!

[charles]

Thanks for the info - I can say I've learned some things today.

[the52blues]

I found a little more history on B&J's connection to the Hagstrom company and Kent guitars. Interesting reading check it out -
http://www.albinhagstrom.se/here_comes_the_history.htm

[charles]

I found a little more history on B&J's connection to the Hagstrom company and Kent guitars. Interesting reading check it out -
http://www.albinhagstrom.se/here_comes_the_history.htm

We've discussed this in another thread somewhere.

I believe that link actually shows that there is no link between B&J & Hagstrom:
"The name to be used elsewhere in Europe was the trade name Kent (a name which Karl Erik got from Japanese musical accessories which were sold under the same name in the USA by Buegeleisen & Jacobson NY. Buegeleisen & Jacobson also sold the Bjarton acoustic guitar under the Espana name in the USA) when the boom in guitars came."

My comprehension of this excerpt is that the name was simply lifted by Hagstrom from the B&J accessories (amps, etc); so Kent guitars do not have anything to do with B&J (at least the Kent guitar line sold in Europe by Hagstom... although, N. American-sold Kent guitars COULD have something to do with B&J if they expanded their Kent line past accessories into full-blown guitars - but I assume these would be different and separate from what Hagstrom was up to). The European-made and -distributed Kent guitars = Hagstrom; the Japanese-made (and I assume N. American-distributed) Kent musical accessories = B&J.

[the52blues]

My perception is that the electric line of Kent was by Hagstrom and later B&J used the name for the acoustic line Kent was known for. The Kent dreadnought I had in the 60's said "Made in Japan" on it and I don't think Hagstrom used Japanese luthiers. Now that I think about it, the semi-hollow f hole electric Kent I had also said "Made in Japan"

[Barry]

Apropos to the Kent/MIJ discussion, I was just on Kijiji and there's a 1966 Kent Polaris for sale---Made in Japan!
At the risk of having the link go stale (and being in the wrong forum, sorry Charles!) you can check it out here:
http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell ... 156106374#

[charles]

The Kent in that link looks purely Teisco in origin. I know it's a bit of cheapy brand snobbery, but I doubt it has nearly the same... hmmm, for lack of a better term... "pedigree" as the El Degas offerings.

My opinion is that even if B&J had involvement in the Kent guitar line (we know they did some of the musical accessories i.e. amps), it's a totally different beast than their El Degas line of guitars. Interesting link, though; and the use of Kent amps in the El Degas catalog I have seen shows that there was some sort of link - whether or not B&J procured the manufacturing lines in Japan or was simply the distributor for the N American market is probably lost to the ages.