What a "Lawsuit" Guitar Actually Means

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:00 pm

If you've happened to see my post on the guitars currently in my "stable", then you may have noticed that I have two Westone's (soon to be 3, God help me!). I'm a huge fan of these guitars which came out of the Matsumoko factory in Japan in the 80's, especially their fantastic necks.
(They're also a tad easier to find locally than El Degas--sorry Charles!)

While browsing the definitive site on these guitars:

http://www.matsumoku.org
I found a helpful reference to the oft referred to and abused term, "lawsuit guitar".
Since the claims do get confusing or even down right misleading at times in online ads I thought the readers of this forum might find it helpful. I confess that I also got a bit carried away believing that El Degas was "sued" as well for infringement. They weren't, as Charles rightly pointed out elsewhere.

A note about the "Lawsuit"

It is a common misconception that the famous Gibson/Norlin lawsuit was filed against a number of Japanese companies. It is also commonly said it was over the exact copying of American designs. Neither is true. The lawsuit was filed by Norlin (Gibson's parent company) against Elger/Hoshino (Ibanez's American division) over the use of the "open book" headstock design which Norlin claimed as a Gibson Trademark. It was not over the exact copying of body dimensions or construction. These guitars were metric! Don't believe me? Just try putting your Gibson stop-tail posts in one of those "exact" copies! When's the last time you saw a bolt-neck genuine LP Custom?

The lawsuit was not "won" by Norlin, but settled out of court. Most of the Japanese companies, as a precautionary move, turned away from close copies but many still offered their "version" of the classic American designs with at least minor departures in design and appearance.

Often I see the term "lawsuit" tossed around rather freely. Most often it is either hype to raise the price of the copy someone trying to sell, or they simply don't know what the "lawsuit" was all about. Too often it really isn't a lawsuit model at all. DON'T FALL VICTIM TO THE HYPE! I see a lot of this in on-line auctions and on-line guitar dealers advertisements. I have seen guitars go for much more than they are actually worth simply because the purchaser has fallen for the hype or actually didn't know what constitutes a "lawsuit" model. Remember, the best customer is a well informed customer.

Something to keep in mind if you're considering a purchase which seems hyped along these lines.

Post by **charles** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:22 am

"Lawsuit era" is simply a marketing term, same as"vintage"

Same as a whole host of guitars from the 70's get touted as "lawsuit" guitars, there are a lot of 80's guitars now being touted as "vintage".

It all just serves to keep the used guitar market churning and sellers moving guitars.

Caveat emptor... "buyer beware"

Post by **charles** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:26 am

Oh, and also beware of online ads touting makes of obscure 70's guitars as being "made by" XXXXX factory or "the same guitar/quality of" XXXXX factory/brand's guitars.

They may be right... but they may also be wrong.

For example, some El Degas guitars have the trackings of being made by all of the major Japanese manufacturers of the time. However, this does not mean they are all Hoshino's, Matsumoku's, Fuji Gen's, etc; or that they are all the same quality as those...

Again, caveat emptor! Do your homework and be prepared for what may come if you buy blindly - I've been blessed AND burned by such buying practices!

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:50 am

"Lawsuit era" is simply a marketing term, same as"vintage"

Yeah, that's the way it seems go today.
What burns my toast is that I own a Vintage (brand) guitar designed by Trevor Wilkinson of John Hornby Skewes in England.
http://www.jhs.co.uk/vintageelectric.html

Every time I mention that I have a Vintage Telecaster the assumption is that own an old Fender!

So I hear ya.

Post by **charles** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:23 am

Those Vintage brand guitars from Wilkinson look pretty nice, actually. Though it's not my thing, they have some relic models that look a bit like they are vintage...

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:16 pm

Hey Charles, if you or anyone reading this, is ever in the mood to get a "new" guitar I can highly recommend Vintage!

I never in my wildest dreams thought I'd own a 'Tele'...I was always a Gibson kinda guy. Then I started picking up the TC200 while waiting for my son's guitar lesson to end. His instructor is a distributor in this area and they were just, you know, hanging on the wall, calling out to me!

Well, one thing leads to another and soon, I was hooked...what a beautiful playing guitar...and the tone was, um, vintage! Almost plays itself. Ya know?

They also have an incredible reproduction of the famous Peter Green "lemon drop" Les Paul, complete with out-of-phase pup wiring, and the au courant beat up, aged look. Man! It's fantastic!! Smooth as silk and feels just like my real Gibson's neck. But...it's about $750 bucks!! That's not much compared to a real Gibson...but too rich for this poor ole' broke bugger.

(sigh)

Post by **charles** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:19 pm

Reminds me of all the Eastwood guitars that keep calling to me when I'm in a local music shop here... nice, but I'm not opening that can of worms - Eastwood makes about a half dozen guitars I'd buy in a heartbeat if I opened the flood gates.... and had more money.