More Evidence for Possible Matsumoku-Westone Connection!

[Barry]

In addition to a previous post concerning a link between Matsumoku Industrial Manufacturing (under the Westone brand) and El Degas acoustic guitars ( http://www.eldegas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84 ) I have found what I believe is more circumstantial evidence which suggests that some EL Degas electric guitars may have been made by Matsumoku of Japan, or at least assembled out of Japanese parts; in this case, based on Westone models.

Brief Background
I recently found this El Degas for sale on Kijiji:

Since I own several Westone and Vantage guitars this struck me right away as being familiar in design and construction. I began to do some research on the Westone site then posed the question to their knowledgeable forum members.

Rather than repeat it all here, I direct you to that forum for more discussion and catalogue links and you can make up your own mind:
http://forum.westoneguitars.net/general ... 3.htm#4540

Come back here and tell us what you think. The more we talk and dig around the more we'll understand about these guitars that we love so much.

[charles]

I forgot to mention in our PM discussion about this model - the logo style tells me unequivocally that that is a late-model MIK guitar. Possibly after the acquisition of B&J by Kaman Music (I think! ) Might ruin the Matsumoku-connection.

But heck, an "unequivocal" assumption is worth as much as the bytes pushed around for me to type this! The logo style might have been used on both the remaining MIJ production and the shift towards MIK.

I had someone once tell me that El Degas disappeared when "their factory burned down in the 80's" (not a direct quote!)... and hmmmmmm I happen to know a certain Japanese guitar manufacturer that DID experience that occurrence in the 80s... Uncle Mat.

...

Hey just found this:
http://acapella.harmony-central.com/sho ... ?t=1882834
"You obviously got one of the last Westone guitars manufactured at the Matsumoku plant, which burned down in 1987. Those were the good ones! Your friend's Westone was made by Samick of Korea, which is where Westone's were made after they switched manufacturing operations due to Matsumoku's fire."

THIS could explain everything... perhaps it really IS a Westone connection, but to the Samick MIK plant and not Matsumoku MIJ.

[Barry]

You're right about the logo...I was so fixated on template details I ignored the obviously "fat" Degas with the small "el".

I think the story I read about Matsumoku's demise was that it was owned by Singer (the sewing machine company) and it simply went bankrupt about '87 with the resultant inventory being moved to Korea (Samick)??
ARRRGH! This is frustrating.

Corsair? Frenchy? Help, if you're there pulleeeze!

[Barry]

... perhaps it really IS a Westone connection, but to the Samick MIK plant and not Matsumoku MIJ.

Actually Charles, from what I understand from the Westone.info site, there was a short period of time, after Matsumoku's bankruptcy from about 1987 to 1990 I think, when the Westones were in a transition period under the ownership of SLM (St. Louis Music). I'm not certain of it but I think they were produced in Korea, in all liklihood, by Samick, which is still in operation today producing things like the Silvertone brand.

The guitars made during this post-Matsumoku period are also superb quality and well regarded by collectors. So, just because it's MIK doesn't necessarily mean it isn't good stuff.

[charles]

So, just because it's MIK doesn't necessarily mean it isn't good stuff.

I'd never say that

There are some great MIK instruments, even from back then when it was really in its infancy as far as the world's guitar models.

I had a MIK El Degas that was, well, a steaming pile... but there are those who report that they had much better luck and if any of the El Degas MIK's did indeed come from the Samick plant, then that could explain why there are some real good'uns out there.

[Barry]

UPDATE/CORRECTION
I just found the definitive (?) description of the Arai-Mastumoku history.
My recollection is a bit off in my post above...close but a bit out of order. Please read this one pager to set the record straight:
http://matsumoku.net/site/arai_matsumoku.html

[charles]

Funny how there are different stories going around about what finished the Matsumoku factory (I've read people claiming it burned to the ground, the link above says it was destroyed by an earthquake). Ah, the Internet!

[Barry]

I'm not sure if I've put this link up on this site somewhere else, but if I haven't, shame on me!
I was on the Westone information site and had a look at the acoustic guitars which were made for them by Matsumoku in the 70's, and guess what?
I'm seeing an awful lot of "El Degas" in these pictures:
http://www.westone.info/indexacoustic.html

There are a few models listed there which to my eyes are identical to posts on this forum, particularly with features such as Jacaranda backs and sides, MOP purfling, Vee back inserts, etc. And of course the overall quality of materials and workmanship.

[Barry]

I was looking a bit closer at some old Aria catalogues from the 70's in connection with an inquiry on the Matsumoku site. I've glanced at them before but what I missed was their model number references which bear a very close parallel with the ED model letter prefixes.

For example, on this page you see several F (Fender?) models and the GL (Guild) copy:


On this page, the Dove and Hummingbird copies along with the Jumbo, all of which have appeared under the ED label:


I'm fairly convinced at this point, that my Dove model at least is a re-branded Aria. The "Guild" and "Jumbo" models look very much to my eye like those we've seen here in these forums. The Matsumoku connection? Mats built many of the early Aria's, Aria Pro's and later the Aria Pro II lines from the late 70's to the late 80's. Westone was the Mats house brand and carried many acoustics under that label which appear to have been re-branded Aria Pro's. Kind of a reciprocal arrangement I'm thinking. Mats mainly built the solid body electrics for Aria and Aria built the acoustics for MATS/Westone. In the marketing mix of the times, many were white labelled out under many badges such as El Degas.

Have browse yourself and see what you think: http://www.oldguitar.jp/catalog/aria.htm