Possible Serial Number Interpretation

[Barry]

This damn Covid19 Pandemic has blessed me with more time on my hands than usual, and there's only so many home projects, walks, and lawn mowing a fella can take, ya know?

My thoughts started wandering to el Degas and the misery of not having any information on serial number interpretation.

For a long while I have noticed that there seemed to be a lot of MIJ acoustics with serial numbers beginning with "4" so I thought I'd have a short browse through the site and see how many I could find, and if there was any obvious connection between them.

This is, by no means, an exhaustive list but the preliminary results are encouraging and I think I may have figured out a small piece of the puzzle.
These models relate to Japanese made acoustics only, all obtained in roughly the same time frame (1974-76).

GB 25 Gibson Dove 4020145
GB 23 Gibson Hummingbird 4070134
GB 25 Gibson Dove 4080087
MT 18 Martin 4090021
GB 25 Gibson Dove 4090370
MT ?1 Martin 4100035
MT 18 Martin 4100086
GL 35 Guild 4100122
GB 26 Gibson Sunburst 4120316

The pattern I believe I am seeing is this:
First digit =The Year (1974 in this case)
Next 2 digits = The Month
5th 6th 7th digits = Monthly Production Number
and the 4th digit? = wishful thinking in case they had orders for over a thousand!

This is similar to Matsumoku's numbering system in the same era. It would be great if these were made at Mats, but it's still anyone's guess who. Chushin Gakki appears to have been involved in the solid body electrics, particularly the LP models, but I don't know for sure if they made acoustics.

Whoever it was they made fine instruments and I would submit that based on the above, that Japanese made models bearing a 4 prefix serial number at least came from the same plant in the same year.

[charles]

That is a really interesting theory!! You may be on to something there, Barry.

All the best!

[Barry]

Cheers Charles.
Hope all is well out there in Virus land!

[charles]

Let's just say it's a great time to be inside playing all these guitars

[adam]

Hey Barry! I posted my GB24 some time ago on here (10+ years!) and still trying to track down when it was actually made. This was my fathers El Degas who has long passed. My mother remembers him having it at least a few years before they married in 1972 so she's thinking '69 or'70 he must have bought it (in store likely in or near Brantford, Ontario). If I understand your analysis correctly this unfortunately doesn’t match up with 1974.

GB24 Gibson Hummingbird s/n 4070158

Charles also saw your Jan 30 2022 post on model numbers. Is there ever going to be a solution to the El Degas serial number mystery?

[Barry]

Thanks for the info adam.

I was speculating on the year of manufacture but I also said:

Whoever it was they made fine instruments and I would submit that based on the above, that Japanese made models bearing a 4 prefix serial number at least came from the same plant in the same year.

If we can corroborate your experience that would indeed through a monkey wrench into the time based theory! But we have seen a lot of models now both here and for sale elsewhere and there is strong correlation between the top end MIJ builds and the "4" prefix. It may indeed indicate a factory rather than the year of build but so far the jury's still out.

Is there ever going to be a solution to the El Degas serial number mystery?

We've been asking that question for years!

[charles]

Charles also saw your Jan 30 2022 post on model numbers. Is there ever going to be a solution to the El Degas serial number mystery?

All signs point to "no".

No info from the original manufacturer(s) and importer exists; and anecdotally from what we've seen in the instruments, even the manufacturers themselves did not really seem to apply serial numbers consistently or uniformly.

Perhaps if we had the power to create a larger users' registry of instruments and their corresponding S/Ns we could start to discern some sort of rhyme or reason to them, but I for one think its a fools errand for the reasons stated above.

I just thank my lucky stars that at least the model numbers seem to mostly have a sense of purpose to them!! Thank goodness for small graces, as they say.

[Jesseblack]

Soo. My el degas gb23 serial that i bought TODAY is 4060077. Are you suggesting that this means its a 74?? I remember the 82 yr old guy i bought it off today saying he bought it new at mecca music in 1978. Indicating that the ladt 2 numbers in my serial are the year of manufacture. But...hard to be sure.

[charles]

We've never found a reliable or verifiable way to link serial numbering to anything definitive.

Honestly I think the serial numbering being used in the first place is that they wanted to make the guitars "look the part", and then decided it was not worth the extra hassle.

[Barry]

Soo. My el degas gb23 serial that i bought TODAY is 4060077. Are you suggesting that this means its a 74?? I remember the 82 yr old guy i bought it off today saying he bought it new at mecca music in 1978. Indicating that the ladt 2 numbers in my serial are the year of manufacture. But...hard to be sure.

There is no correlation between the year you buy an instrument and its year of manufacture. It may be close, within a year, or it may have been sitting in a music shop, new or used, for a very long time. No way to know.

The only thing I can suggest with some certainty is that serial numbers beginning with 4 point to a specific run, in a specific plant, and that instruments made there are of superior quality. That's helpful for purchases in the aftermarket. Other than that, we don't know.